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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#381

Post by sensanaty »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

Just give her a dumb phone? Kids don't need a smartphone to make a call or send a message.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#382

Post by lupusreal »

_heimdall wrote: post #69
constantcrying wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are old enough to drive certain vehicles and old enough to buy alcohol. If we trust them with that surely we can let them do things during the day without constant adult supervision.

The legal drinking age in Finland is 18 or 20, depending on the ABV. Where us the drinking age 16?

Most US states, last I checked. Note: drinking age, not age to buy alcohol. Usually there's some rule about parental consent or only at home.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#383

Post by dvngnt_ »

Bringing my first android phone to school in high school helped me learn linux when i was into rooting.

I don't think phones are the problem. I think it's more social media. Schools find it less effort to ban phones vs how to work with them.

The nanny state is a troubling trend

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#384

Post by neom »

_bin_ wrote: post #301
anhner wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those rights can't be taken away... without existing legislation. There are many rights that can be taken away, freedom of movement for example in the case of prisoners, but you need laws in order to not make that taking away a crime itself. You can't just apprehend and throw someone in your basement because they stole something from you. Same thing with children's phones, a teacher can't just take away the phone bec…

Sure, I think this just looks a little alien from an American perspective because most of our rights are set up as explicit negatives to block the government from legislating them away, more than to prevent Joe or Jane Teacher from taking a phone. "Congress shall pass no law..." I guess the nordics don't have a common-law tradition and so never inhereted the in loco parentis doctrine that allows schools to take subst…

Technically it only takes 38 states governments, no? Certainly the Americans would never tolerate such an amendment, never the less it is possible.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#385

Post by constantcrying »

barbazoo wrote: post #324
constantcrying wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the aim of schools? It certainly did not appear to me that way, here in Germany. There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing. For the other things you described I do not think they were ever considered. All around school was a giant waste of time.

“I basically learned nothing at school” is such a silly obviously wrong thing to say. Really doesn’t help you make a point.

I spent 12 years there. Give the time investment the education results were extremely underwhelming.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#386

Post by neom »

ethbr1 wrote: post #284
meowface wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also grew up without phones in schools but in my opinion the problem is phones (and laptops, frankly) in class. If a student isn't in class, I don't see why they can't use their phone to talk to people or browse websites or whatever. If they're in class, then 99% chance it's distracting them from learning. If they're not, I think personal autonomy is a good rule.

My argument against any phones from school start to end is that socialization and interpersonal skills are also learned in school. Having a distraction box at hand slows that process. Grade school kids aren't tiny adults: they're actively building the pieces that make them into adults (self control, emotional regulation, empathy, cooperation, etc). I don't trust Google or Apple to sacrifice profits, at scale, to supp…

I agree with you. Also grew up through the full 90. To me, school is school, all of it. Not school, not school, but all time at school is: school. and imo personal devices in school is really bad news: period.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#387

Post by II2II »

hackyhacky wrote: post #306
_bin_ wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I think this just looks a little alien from an American perspective because most of our rights are set up as explicit negatives to block the government from legislating them away, more than to prevent Joe or Jane Teacher from taking a phone. "Congress shall pass no law..." I guess the nordics don't have a common-law tradition and so never inhereted the in loco parentis doctrine that allows schools to take subst…

> most of our rights are set up as explicit negatives to block the government from legislating them away, Of course, as we've discovered, those rights don't mean much, when the executive doesn't want to recognize them. So what was the point anyway?

It's too early to make that claim. There are multiple branches and levels of government to deal with situations like this. They have worked in the past for smaller scale violations. They should work in the present for larger scale violations. The problem is that it takes time, it always took time, so a lot of people are going to get hurt in the process. (Granted, it is also important for people to fight for their rights because the current government is pushing the limits.)

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#388

Post by constantcrying »

bmacho wrote: post #273
constantcrying wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, are you serious?

I think so. And he is presumably right. You either - learned something -- aced the tests - had the opportunity to learn something -- didn't ace the tests but somewhy you still claim that you were bored It is possible that neither happened, you just somehow knew everything. But that's highly improbable.

My point is that the actual content of school material was very low, especially compared to university.

Of course I did actually learn the material of the tests, but the actual learning outcome of my schooling is far worse then it could have been, given the 12 years invested.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#389

Post by -__---____-ZXyw »

jon-wood wrote: post #285
adverbly wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So wait did they ban it for teachers and staff as well?

Pretty sure if a teacher in a school is found to be scrolling TikTok when they're meant to be teaching a lesson they're going to lose their job pretty quickly.

Have you interacted with humans anytime in the last five years?

People scroll TikTok or equivalent scrolly things as they drive, eat, poop, cook, as they "talk", as they walk, as they queue, as they "watch" movies and tv shows, during their down time, up time, in the bed until the small hours of the morning, people wake up on their day off and have a big plan and then... scroll the whole day. People go to the beach and scroll, they climb a mountain and scroll. They cycle and scroll, I've seen them do it.

If they can't hold it - showering, exercise, love-making (sometimes) - they get the thing to pump audio and/or visuals in their general direction, sometimes propped up, sometimes just strewn there. It's a riot.

And yes - people also scroll on these devices, if you can possibly imagine it, when they work. In schools, even! And in post offices, betting parlors, nail salons, cafes, while they do their only fans performance, you name it.

I've never been to Finland, don't speak a word of Finnish, and don't know much about Finnish culture, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if I had a 20c coin for every time a teacher in Finland scrolled TikTok for a minute or two during work hours, I'd have, roughly, a completely ridonculously large bag of 20c coins.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#390

Post by CYR1X »

dvngnt_ wrote: post #383

Bringing my first android phone to school in high school helped me learn linux when i was into rooting. I don't think phones are the problem. I think it's more social media. Schools find it less effort to ban phones vs how to work with them. The nanny state is a troubling trend

Phone bans in schools have been going on for 20 years. Yeah we didn't have smart phones back then, but with tactile buttons kids would text each other without even looking at their phone and keeping it in their pocket. Before phones kids were playing snake on their TI-83 when they weren't in math class. At it's core these devices are just a distraction when they're supposed to be paying attention.
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