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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#141

Post by makeitdouble »

cheschire wrote: post #54
GuB-42 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is: smartphones exist. The young adults these children will become will live in a world where smartphones are an essential part of their life. Using a smartphone is a practical skill. That's why I don't think banning smartphones is the best idea. It is probably better than unrestricted access, but I feel that school should teach how to use them well instead. It is a bit like with calculators, there are clas…

Cars exist and are foundational to modern living yet we do not push kids to learn to drive until their later teenage years. Some countries wait until they are 18 and others choosing a couple years sooner.

Kids still get to walk with cars around, ride bikes, drive motorcycles usually a few years before majority, they also ride cars and are usually familiar with how they work way before driving.

I'm actually of the option we should have a smartphone category/setup at the same positioning as bikes are to cars, it would even benefit adults the same way not everyone wants a car.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#143

Post by constantcrying »

andrepd wrote: post #130
constantcrying wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not take me twelve years to learn to read and write. What an awful excuse. What made me good at reading was reading books outside of school . In a single semester of university I learned more than in 12 years of school.

> In a single semester of university I learned more than in 12 years of school. You keep saying this but I have a hard time believing this is true; in fact I'm not even sure what "more" means (objectively) in this context. Let's see, in the 12 years of schooling you've learned at the very least: how to read and write, how to interpret texts, how to read literature, how to compose an essay, how to speak, read, and wri…

In school I spend 8 hours listening to some teacher or playing silly learning games and did some busywork as homework. I never learned for any test or found any of the material particularly interesting.

In university I actually had to study, take notes, research the subject, study for many hours, etc.

>a ton of mathematics from basic arithmetic to I guess something like calculus and trigonometry and algebra and some discrete maths

Hilarious to say this. As it turned out, my first semester of university mathematics was spent on learning everything I did not learn in school. And it made it extremely clear to me how badly school had prepared me.

You would think that school would put me in a position where university mathematics were just a continuation. Nothing further could be from the truth, nearly everything taught in school was taught in a way which made it useless for actual mathematics.

In school we learned nothing about: Sets, logic, deductions, Axioms or Proofs (which turn out to be really important!), we did however spend years solving integrals, which turned out extremely unhelpful for actual mathematics.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#144

Post by lolinder »

Y-bar wrote: post #127
constantcrying wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which country are 16 year olds not allowed to work?

In my nation 16-year olds may work outside of school hours (school is mandatory until they are 18 years old). There are other hard limits on which types of jobs and the time of day they may work. Work shall never interfere with school.

Which suggests that the child labor laws for 16-year-olds are there to keep 16-year-olds in school, rather than school being there as a place to put 16-year-olds who are banned from employment.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#145

Post by constantcrying »

dpatterbee wrote: post #140
constantcrying wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think I am "against learning"? I am saying that school is terrible at teaching . If the goal of schooling is that students learn then the school system I was in was a total failure. The moment I entered university I learned much more and much faster.

You're definitely wrong because I learned lots in school but university was completely useless.

What was taught in school over an entire semester usually was a single lecture in university. At least for the mathematics courses, where actually similar things were taught, just from drastically different perspectives.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#146

Post by RandomLensman »

constantcrying wrote: post #111
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not blaming you. But as intelligent as you may be, you have discounted all the possibilities for the failure of you school or your particular teachers. Because you had a bad time, then the whole system is malicious right? I know a high school teacher with a PhD and has tutored and lectured at the university level. But they are a teacher now. Guess I’ll paint them with the same brush as all teachers.

>then the whole system is malicious right? Where did I say that the intentions were bad? >Because you had a bad time, then the whole system is malicious right? No. In university the expectations were drastically higher. If the goal of the school was to prepare me for university, then it failed at that for everyone . The mismatch can not be attributed to me. >But they are a teacher now. Guess I’ll paint them with the…

All students at university were unprepared from school or only some, i.e., performance of different schools, classes, etc. would be heterogeneous?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#147

Post by constantcrying »

watwut wrote: post #135
constantcrying wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>German schools expect quite a lot from students that do actually want to go to better schools. Not my experience. >But yes, it is possible to slack through it all if you want to slack. I was a good student though and did really well. I never learned for anything though and was bored in basically every subject. There never were any expectations on me which I didn't trivially meet.

Hey, you are the genius who knew it all before learning and got highest possible grades with no effort. Congrats. Overwhelming majority of people is not like that, they do not get highest grades, they do not get into gymnasium without effort, don't pass tests without effort.

Haha, are you serious?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#148

Post by makeitdouble »

ndr42 wrote: post #35
geremiiah wrote: post #29

Is it possible to fight Internet addiction without banning stuff? While it helps to ban smartphones during school, it won't stop these kids from logging on for 5 to 7 hrs after school. We need to find ways to make people (not just kids) more resilient to Internet addiction without resorting to widespread bans, which are both hard to implement, unlikely to keep people away long term and dangerous for other reasons.

I do not think kids and everybody else are standing a chance against all the money that is thrown at making and keeping them addicted. So I fear if we do not want them to be addicted we have to prohibit things (it does not need to be smartphones, it could be mechanisms on these devices).

Prohibition didn't work for booze, doesn't work for drugs.

Why would you be expecting better results for this ?

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#149

Post by nopakos »

n4r9 wrote: post #42
jajko wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thats no reason to let kids do empty highly addictive activity unhinged instead of getting prepared for later life. Emotional reactions != smart ones.

No, I agree. Just give the kids brick phones if you're that worried.

It's Finland. The school should give a Nokia 3310 to each kid.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#150

Post by nabla9 »

It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away.

Current legislation allows the teacher to tell a student to put their phone away in a pocket or backpack, for example, where it will not be a distraction.

The use of phones during breaks cannot be completely banned, as students have fundamental rights. The Constitution guarantees everyone the protection of property, which also applies to students' phones. Restricting the use of mobile devices must be considered from the perspective of freedom of speech and the protection of a phone call or other confidential message.

Section 12 from Finnish constitution:

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Section 12 - Freedom of expression and right of access to information

Everyone has the freedom of expression. Freedom of expression entails the right to express, disseminate and receive information, opinions and other communications without prior prevention by anyone. More detailed provisions on the exercise of the freedom of expression are laid down by an Act. Provisions on restrictions relating to pictorial programmes that are necessary for the protection of children may be laid down by an Act. Documents and recordings in the possession of the authorities are public, unless their publication has for compelling reasons been specifically restricted by an Act. Everyone has the right of access to public documents and recordings.

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See also: Convention on the Rights of the Child https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/... Wikpedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_th...

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