Live data from Hacker News

Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

netblocks.org

381–390 of 437 posts

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an outsider comes into your family (in the form of a wife or husband or some such relationship), destroys it from within, ensures your family is split and creates lifetime hostility. Then washes his/her hands off the mess and says "Sorry boys, you fight it out, I am out of here! Ciao!" would you be kind to someone coming up to you and saying "At what point do you take responsibility for ending your own violence?".…

So before the British, there was absolutely no Hindu/Muslim tension in south east Asia at all, it was all peace and friendship? The Mughals were taxing non-Muslims just for being infidels in the 1600s and that led to the Maratha empire which then proceeded to conquer parts of the Mughal empire, often inflicting retribution in return. The idea that India was one happy family until the British came along is ridiculous.…

> no Hindu/Muslim tension

To explain it better, we have had fights/relationships between both communities going all the way back to 6th century. And the people who are Muslims today were of various Religious ethnicities (majority of whom were Hindus, Persian/Zoroastrians etc). So our relationships run way back before Anglo-Saxons entered our shores as traders/merchants. If you pick up our History you will see references to not just trade, politics or wars but also familial relations that spanned from present day Bangladesh all the way to the other corners of Iran. Even our Ancient Scriptures like Ramayana and Mahabharata has references to these regions and the Kingdoms within them. So yes when I say Indian Subcontinent I mean the entire extant region that includes present day Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. So even if we fought wars with each other and one Kingdom sometimes reigning over other Kingdoms, we never felt it was some "outsider" who ruled over us.

The reason we blame the Brits is purely because of the Partition of India and the mess they created with drawing the various borders. That does not just include borders between India and Pakistan. It also includes borders between India and China. Pakistan and Afghanistan. Pakistan and Iran. Afghanistan and Iran. They left a huge mess when they left as the lines drawn did not account for natural resource sharing or even towns/cities. In some states, the border lines ran through actual homes. The Partition of India is heavily criticized also because the British Empire decided to divide British-India based on Religious lines. The ones who claimed to talk about "Freedom, Democracy, Rule of Law, Equality, Liberty" etc decided to divide the Country on Religious lines. This resulted in millions dying as they crisscrossed these artificially drawn borders which required them to leave their homes, family, everything on the basis of religious lines. There was absolutely no requirement for the Brits to divide India at all.

The consequences of the division directly resulted in all the crazy stuff that happened after 1947. It was a ticking time bomb. 9/11 attacks, bombing of WTC, Taliban taking over Afghanistan, Iran going towards autocracy, emergence of ISIS and Al-Qaeda... all of this could have easily been prevented if India was not Partitioned. It was not just Indians but the World that paid the price for the British folly. And we Indians were in the right because in the entire Region we are the only prosperous ones as we chose Democracy, Freedom, Liberty, Rule of Law over Religious nonsense. The rest of the region fell apart into chaos after the Partition. Bangladesh is an outlier only because it took the support of India to help it achieve Independence from Pakistan and liberate itself. If not for India, Bangladesh would be in ruins today.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#382
post #183
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In countries this would be a problem in right now, satellite TV is often banned too.

Satellite TV is exceptionally common in Pakistan, I believe.

And Iran. Still banned though.

[https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/government-bans-imp...]

Of course, so are most drugs in the US.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#383

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

Pakistan is the only true Muslim country in the world. There is no 'too religious'. I think you're missing the much larger picture. All of the conflict in that area is connected. Turkey is melting down because of their public positions on various matters; especially Xinjiang; not to mention poor decisions around fiscal policy. Pakistan and Khan mess. Super happy they finally arrested him. We shall see how it goes, I'…

I know that Musharraf used to say Pakistan is fortress of Islam but saying you’re the only true Muslim country in the world is kind of a stretch no? Why? Blasphemy laws? Nukes?

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paki here, here to give the sad truth: while he most definitely profited from this (and other) deals, the fact that this deal was passed through when he was in office without any issue then , and the fact that the other party (the property tycoon) is NOT also been indicted means that there is most definitely a political manoeuvre. The same happened with the previous PM, Nawaz Sharif. Most people remember his name wit…

I'm seriously confused how people can remotely equate them. Nawaz sharif is worth 100s of millions. He's driving around in Bentleys in London for 4 years while his brother is PM of Pakistan. I really want to know what did IK profit in the current allegations? He's creating a university where students learn for free like his decades old hospitals where people get free healthcare.

He did say after all comparing Nawaz Sharif to Sultana Daku is an insult because Sultana Daku at least helped poor people

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#385

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

I am sorry to say but at this point Pakistan is a failed state. It’s fascinating to see how India just leaped ahead of Pakistan even though they both got independence at the same time and were essentially the same people divided based on religion. I hate to say this but maybe there’s something to be said about religion here.

Bangladesh and Indonesia, two countries in similar parts of the world, with a majority Muslim population, are much more stable, with strong, growing economies.

Maybe there's something positive to be said about religion here as well I guess? Reaching for a simple answer for a complex problem is plainly intellectually dishonest.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#386

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

here is a 7 minutes video in english on the topic, if you woul like to watch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTy5giEpodk

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#387
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believed this as well. Then came covid-19, and I had to learn that power corrupts people, same for those on the left as well as those on the right. Since then, I basically lost all believe in the narrative of democracy that I have been fed with my entire life. Its all a lie.

Emergencies and wars are bad for démocraties. The question is how fast and bad you come out of them. Societies stood, jails are not flooded with opponents, I get the weekly interview of an antivax/covidsceptic/whatever on the radio because they're on the "right" political team, the governments are paying the political prices of their handling in the ballot boxes. This is not perfect and never was meant to. Sorry if y…

Thanks for this compassionate reply. Its about time that we start understanding eachother even if we are in disagreement. It is subtle, but it really makes a difference. Let me just reply to your last point:

In fact, I am psat that, because this was exactly what happened to me. We had a coalition between center-right and the green party. Even the socialists turned up and everyone seemed to unite into a coalition to divide the people. I am lacking the eloquence in english to explain myself fully, but the lesson I got, sadly, was that you really can not trust anyone to not corrupt and try to control you.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#388
post #382
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satellite TV is exceptionally common in Pakistan, I believe.

And Iran. Still banned though. [ https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pakistan/government-bans-imp... ] Of course, so are most drugs in the US.

I believe that receiving state media with state-approved satellite services is A-OK. This is an import ban on unapproved equipment.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#389
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you accepting that no amount of contrary data in 10 years would change your mind?

I'd hope that 'total collapse' would be self evident enough that I would not have to look at the data. But, Good data would convince me. for social collapse, 'Pew Research' has conducted stellar surveys. I'd start there. Another solid metric is low-income refugees. If a measurable number of low-income minorities start leaving India for countries of slightly higher average income (eg: Bangladesh, Philippines, Indonesi…

[deleted]

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#390
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you accepting that no amount of contrary data in 10 years would change your mind?

I'd hope that 'total collapse' would be self evident enough that I would not have to look at the data. But, Good data would convince me. for social collapse, 'Pew Research' has conducted stellar surveys. I'd start there. Another solid metric is low-income refugees. If a measurable number of low-income minorities start leaving India for countries of slightly higher average income (eg: Bangladesh, Philippines, Indonesi…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN