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Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

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Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#371

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

they consider themselves the only adult in the room, even though mentally they are just a hair older than any of the other actors

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: In terms of rank , the difference between USA and India is similar to India and Pakistan. Maybe the commentor could have chosen USA for comparison. Funny thing is perception, these comments just harm India's perception for readers here. Why drag us here?

I am not here to dissect the point difference. I am just saying why drag us here and not the other 55?

[deleted]

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even in the US, only 15% of households have any backup at all That's because people in the US rarely, if ever, lose power, so there's no need for backups.

That's because people in the US rarely, if ever, lose power, so there's no need for backups This just isn't true. I had regular power outages when I lived in the US. Usually they'd only last some hours and usually they were caused by weather (the midwest has storms) or animals. This could have been solved by burying the cables, but that probably wouldn't happen any tine soon. In more than one location, it would have…

> This just isn't true. I had regular power outages when I lived in the US

And I have never had an outage in the 20+ years I've lived in SF (except for the one time they were doing maintenance and had announced the outage days in advance).

See? Anecdotes prove nothing. Remember: I wrote "rarely". I would say 99.9999% availability (for me) is pretty good.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#374
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Varies from country to country. Here in Germany we have substantially stricter laws against hate speech for example. Even more egregious, we have pretty strict laws against insults as well, which do get abused by people in power. For example, not too long ago someone got his house raided by police for calling the state interior minister a dick on twitter. These kinds of laws are only possible because we have less str…

Whoa! How did I miss #PimmelGate???? Yes, sure this is a bit of dark spot for freedom of speech in Germany. From what I'm seeing though pauli zoo got suspended from twitter afterwards and there has been neither suit nor countersuit in that case. So maybe there is more hidden detail here than is publicly known.

So I wasn't really participating in social media anyways, but it still had a cooling effect on what I'm willing to say in public.

The leader of my state (Berlin) is a cheater (proven; plagiarized heavily in her diss) and I strongly dislike her. I'm also positive she's exactly the kind of petty and vindictive person to go after random people insulting her.

A police raid in itself is a huge punishment already. Your home gets violated, lots of stuff destroyed and in this case, all computers and hard drives taken away. If that happened to me, it would be months of absolute pain to return to normality.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's the Brits fault that Pakistan/India immediately went at each others throat the moment they were gone and the solution was to keep both under "supervision" i.e. empire control? When exactly could they have left without that outcome? Or is the idea here that the British empire still exists in the 21st century? At what point do the people living there take responsibility for ending their own violence, in this sc…

If an outsider comes into your family (in the form of a wife or husband or some such relationship), destroys it from within, ensures your family is split and creates lifetime hostility. Then washes his/her hands off the mess and says "Sorry boys, you fight it out, I am out of here! Ciao!" would you be kind to someone coming up to you and saying "At what point do you take responsibility for ending your own violence?".…

So before the British, there was absolutely no Hindu/Muslim tension in south east Asia at all, it was all peace and friendship? The Mughals were taxing non-Muslims just for being infidels in the 1600s and that led to the Maratha empire which then proceeded to conquer parts of the Mughal empire, often inflicting retribution in return.

The idea that India was one happy family until the British came along is ridiculous. If anything the Brits were suppressing this conflict which is why it re-emerged literally the very same day they left.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These personal reasons would always exist. I’m curious about the justification they would provide to the rest of the world about why they intervened? That gives the moral basis for their use of power. I personally think, even if good rewards existed without a justification to provide that is consistent with their morality/ history of the country it would be very hard for the military to depose a government like they…

Does it matter? Hitler/Stalin/Mao also had 'good reasons' that they claimed for for doing the things they do. End of the day, the military is clinging to power

No, I’d say you’re completely wrong on that part. Hitler/ Stalin/ Mao is a very bad example of institutions clinging to power through pure force. Each of those examples, had grand visions of what was right and why they were justified to completely take over the government. I would even venture that in each of those cases there was broad popular support at the start which led to the complete overthrow of the government.

An incident where power was taken to rule a country just because you could without any great moral basis was probably Pinochet in Chile, not many examples of this case exist.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an outsider comes into your family (in the form of a wife or husband or some such relationship), destroys it from within, ensures your family is split and creates lifetime hostility. Then washes his/her hands off the mess and says "Sorry boys, you fight it out, I am out of here! Ciao!" would you be kind to someone coming up to you and saying "At what point do you take responsibility for ending your own violence?".…

So before the British, there was absolutely no Hindu/Muslim tension in south east Asia at all, it was all peace and friendship? The Mughals were taxing non-Muslims just for being infidels in the 1600s and that led to the Maratha empire which then proceeded to conquer parts of the Mughal empire, often inflicting retribution in return. The idea that India was one happy family until the British came along is ridiculous.…

I never said we were one happy family until the Brits came along. Whatever wars we had pre-Colonization was always the internal matter of the Indian subcontinent. It did not involve outsiders who took decisions on our behalf. Even when we fought the Greeks, it still did not end up in Colonization of any kind. Only post the Portuguese, the French and then finally the British did we experience Colonization. And this Colonization was through "trade" not through "wars". It was a gradual process because even the Brits knew they could not fight militarily (Wars not battles/skirmishes) and had to adopt a "Divide and Rule" policy to subjugate India.

Again, sticking to the analogy of a family, there is never a "happy family" anywhere in the World. Every family has its warts. I bet you have plenty of fights within your family. But still you stick together despite the fights. But all it takes is one outsider to undo it all. And that "undoing" cannot be reversed. Colonization is what happens when you let outsiders into your family and take decisions on behalf of your family.

> If anything the Brits were suppressing this conflict which is why it re-emerged literally the very same day they left

The Brits weren't "suppressing this conflict" by any stretch of imagination. They actually were fomenting it even more. It only turned against them in the 1857 First War of Independence when both Hindus and Muslims united. The reason for that is simple. Brits used cow and pig fat to grease gunpowder cartridges which required one to tear it open with his teeth. This insulted both Hindus and Muslims for obvious reasons. That was the trigger for both communities to unite and fight the Brits. But that still did not stop the Brits from exploiting the division based on religious lines.

> The Mughals were taxing non-Muslims just for being infidels in the 1600s and that led to the Maratha empire which then proceeded to conquer parts of the Mughal empire, often inflicting retribution in return.

And that won't stop even now. We still have groups like ISIS, Al-Qaeda etc which still wreck havoc in all parts of the World. I bet your Country is no different either and I am pretty sure your Country has been at the receiving end of Terrorism since you are unwilling to divulge which Country you belong to. Makes it all the more obvious since you are willing to pontificate to Indians about how we should let all enmity be set aside and live like one happy family while not saying anything about your own Country.

> Name your Country and I'll give you at least 3 examples of this.

Asking you again.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#378
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drifted apart is a kind way of framing "were partitioned intentionally to foment division, by the departing colonizers"

Not exactly. The brits were to blame for process of partition (or lack there-of). The haste, wanton disregard for life, the casual approach towards the largest refugee crisis in human history was certainly avoidable. They were also to blame for further exacerbating divisions via divide-and-conquer. But the divisions already existed. The idea of a Muslim state had had been stewing for decades in certain circles. It wa…

> The idea of a Muslim state had had been stewing for decades in certain circles.

How much of this was fostered by the "divide-and-conquer" approach the British took to ruling the country, including the partition of Bengal on religious lines decades before the partition of the country itself?

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#379
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what exactly do you think that adds to the picture? - Othernet is already a system out of local control that can be received with relatively trivial equipment. - 2000bps feels perhaps a bit too slow, but with an order of magnitude more bandwidth, you could have a -lot- of textual communication. It could carry a big cross-section of what everyone is saying and allow people to choose what they see. - An ideal system…

> That is-- I love the interactive internet, but wouldn't it be cool if it gracefully degraded to still provide "postcards" and "broadcast radio" and a bit more as capacity went down, intermittency went up, and inability to return traffic was sometimes a factor? This already exists, it's called ham radio. There are even large communities of folks sending 'postcards' to each other on a regular basis.

I'm probably failing to articulate what I'm describing. Not really. I've been part of the SSTV scene. I know about packet and things like PACTOR etc too.

I remember operating a UUCP site, and I remember how well network news gracefully dealt with quite a wide variety of sites with different ad-hoc setups. I miss that. I wish more of today's internet was a bit more like that: all the interactivity in the world when the network is good, but gracefully degrading to offline copies, snapshots, etc as the network is intermittently disconnected or one-way or whatever.

Secure ScuttleButt ("SSB") does a lot of this, but there's no real one-way provision and it's a bit wack to use and discover your way through.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#380
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with its local oscillator emissions to be down to an arbitrarily low emission standard. (But who actually does that?) Better testing to compliance standards has pushed LOs down way lower than they were in the 40s-60s. We have relatively cheap high quality spectrum analyzers and big integrated measurements. So-- kinda everyone pushes things down pretty low now. > My point was merely that with an average radio, which…

It's trivial to force all the registered satellite broadcasters servicing a country off-air, if your already willing to arrest the former prime minister in public view, so anyone left with a hot dish would be easily identifiable.

So, you turn off all the state TV coming by satellite... so that you hope that all the satellite receivers get unplugged from the wall (else, they're likely to be listening to reacquire and get program guide etc)... so that you can drive around in vans and look for the -remaining- satellite receivers as a conduit of information coming in.

I mean, I guess it's possible. But probably not your top priority during a time of potential unrest. And it probably won't work that well as a way to find people with the links.

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