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'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

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Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#381

Post by joe_the_user »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness

On the one hand, I've known of all sorts of ridiculous and unbalanced leftist moral outrage misdirected to individuals rather than the broader system (which is what leftists are supposed to oppose).

On the other hand, I feel like the phrase "cancel culture" itself has become an ill-defined catch-all used to attack an ill defined group of people - a situation that mirrors these misdirected leftist attacks.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#382

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

tabtab wrote: post #335
bloopernova wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human beings are not animals. A responsible human is able to resist raping anyone they see. Minors are sexually assaulted, and they do not "taunt hungry tigers" as you put it. I urge you to visit a therapist and explore what has led you to the position you detailed in your comment. I honestly hope you are trolling, because the attitude you have towards women is deeply troubling. I wish you good luck in self improveme…

Re: Human beings are not animals. Sorry, but they are. We're not the center of the universe; were not special. Re: A responsible human is able to resist raping anyone they see. In practice many are not. Live in reality as it is, not as it should be. World hunger won't go away simply because it "shouldn't happen". The universe ignores our shouldnt's, I'm just the messenger. Re: Minors are sexually assaulted, and they…

So, I'll just try to bluntly explain why you're getting pushback, particularly based on stuff like your last line:

You're talking about this as if it's some great revelation you're supplying that abusive men exist, as if women need you to show up and hand them your wisdowm.

This makes clear you've never had a serious conversation about these issues with women, and don't understand even the most basic aspects of their experience. Women learn about abusive men at an extremely early age, and are vigilant against them essentially every moment they're in public.

They don't need you to show up to remind them to wear a bra in order to not get raped, as if that's how it worked in the first place.

You imagine this issue is simple, just as simple as "avoid the crime alley." It's not. The entirety of society is the crime alley on this issue. There's simply no way to "avoid" it.

What women need from you is not this patronizing victim blaming. What they need for you is to help support them when abusive men are identified, so they can be removed from positions of privilege that enable their abuse, and so that the norm to all is clear: this is completely unacceptable.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#384

Post by mc32 »

tasogare wrote: post #376
bluGill wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't wrong, but I don't think you are correct. There were a lot of "good church going men" who wouldn't sleep with anyone they weren't married to. There were others are appeared that way in public, but wanted some "outside pleasures". The former hired for skill and tried not to care about looks, and in fact ugly could be an advantage as it may limit temptation (but this was still "women's work" so it was her).…

One thing your theory is not taking into account is that some secretaries were willing to sleep for fun too. Women are into sex too, it’s not a male thing.

True, but before the sixties the convenience of the pill wasn’t there. The pill really enabled sexual equality/liberation.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#385

Post by snarfy »

yardie wrote: post #84

> the Mafia is very much a part of the music industry, I'm not too familiar with the pop side of the music industry. I dipped my toe into the Rap/R&B side of the business building websites for new artists. There were literal gangsters in the recording studios sitting across from me drinking and smoking and they made plans for every aspect of these young girls lives: what and when they could eat, who they could see, w…

I worked for a startup that contracted with the major record labels at the time, with a lot of the funding coming from the record labels.

One day a group of four men arrived at the office. They were investors and not too happy with how the stock had been performing. This was a time before naked shorting was illegal. They all wore suits and one of the men carried a baseball bat into the office. They all had stereotypical gangster accents. They had a closed door meeting with the CEO that day, baseball bat and all, and I'm pretty sure they got paid that day.

It was one of the most bizarre work experiences in my life. Mafia in the music industry? Yes, yes it is.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#386

Post by dragonwriter »

joe_the_user wrote: post #381
mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness On the one hand, I've known of all sorts of ridiculous and unbalanced leftist moral outrage misdirected to individuals rather than the broader system (which is what leftists are supposed to oppose). On the other hand, I feel like the phrase "cancel culture" itself has become an ill-defined catch-all used to attack an ill defined group of people - a situation that mirror…

> On the other hand, I feel like the phrase "cancel culture" itself has become an ill-defined catch-all used to attack an ill defined group of people

“Cancel culture” is what, after about four decades of nonstop use, the Right has done a search and replace in their canned narratives to replace “political correctness” with. With exactly the same complaints and descriptions of the nature and effects, including the continuous argument that it is new.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#387

Post by tabtab »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #382
tabtab wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Human beings are not animals. Sorry, but they are. We're not the center of the universe; were not special. Re: A responsible human is able to resist raping anyone they see. In practice many are not. Live in reality as it is, not as it should be. World hunger won't go away simply because it "shouldn't happen". The universe ignores our shouldnt's, I'm just the messenger. Re: Minors are sexually assaulted, and they…

So, I'll just try to bluntly explain why you're getting pushback, particularly based on stuff like your last line: You're talking about this as if it's some great revelation you're supplying that abusive men exist, as if women need you to show up and hand them your wisdowm. This makes clear you've never had a serious conversation about these issues with women, and don't understand even the most basic aspects of their…

Re: There's simply no way to "avoid" it.

100% avoidance, not. But skipping provocative clothing at work HELPS. It reduces the wearer's risk. Do you dispute that?

A motorcycle helmet doesn't prevent 100% of head injuries, but it reduces them.

Re: What they need for you is to help support them when abusive men are identified...

I'm NOT saying that bad behavior should go UNpunished. I don't know where you are getting that from. It's not either/or.

I'm only saying women have some responsibility. Not all of it, just some. Some.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#388

Post by dang »

csharptwdec19 wrote: post #198

I'll be bold and say it's the media industry has a problem. I remember family members having problems/reservations with Weinstein's behavior back in the 90's . People like Corey Feltman have been speaking up for years. But nobody cares because we're getting good cinema and TV, right? A huge part of these industries are based on 'favors' and 'networking'. Toss in the theory that you have a higher-than-baseline level o…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26166759.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#389

Post by iguy »

boh wrote: post #326
nostromo wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman Polanski won an Oscar after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a 13 year old girl. Look at all these vile people applauding this villain, who couldn't accept his Oscar because he fled the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnNOBj26lk In some ways I think we may have over responded (Aziz Ansari is not Harvey Weinstein), but it was shocking what behavior people were excusing from the powerful even in r…

Foucault, Satre, Derrida, Barthes literally went on record supporting sexual relations with children (see link below). The idea that something can be so valuable (like art) that it's worth the ethical costs elicited by their purveyors is ridiculous. Ethical behavior doesn't counter creativity (neither should the opposite be true). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of...

I'm not sure that the value of the art was the supposed justification. Not an expert, but I thought they were just arguing for freedom, that children ought to be free to consent to things, not just that great artists deserved a break.

The ongoing Duhamel scandal makes it sound like there was quite a lot going on, in certain elite circles, everyone knew and nobody talked:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/france-begins-...

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#390

Post by [deleted] »

nineplay wrote: post #283
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that men should control themselves. They have the moral responsibility to do so. And yet, we live in a world where not all men do. We live in a world where some men are rapists, and some use intimidation or influence to pressure women into sex. That's their fault , not womens'. But if a woman acts like she lives in a world where that never happens, she is not being very wise. Morally, is it her fault? No, abs…

> But if a woman acts like she lives in a world where that never happens, she is not being very wise. How many woman do you think are pressured into sex who "were not being very wise" What wisdom did they lack? What does acting "like she lives in a world where that never happens" mean exactly? Cute clothes? Friendly attitudes? Having curves and not trying to disguise it? Un

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