'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry' • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#331

Post by duskwuff » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #270

enriquto wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at all these vile people applauding this villain Acknowledging the artistic talent of a villain does not make you vile. Not at all. Imagine a clearer example. Imagine that somebody is on a life sentence convicted of a murder that they have commited. Do you think that this person has the right to write a book? Can this book be sent for participation at a literary contest? Can it win? Does the jury that gives th…

You can recognize the art, while condemning the artist. That's the post-war treatment given to studies of hypothermia that came out of Nazi Germany - because the means by which those studies were conducted was by putting Jews and PoWs into barrels of ice water, and measuring how long it would take them to die. You recognize the results, while condemning every single person involved in the methods.

That research is highly controversial within the modern scientific community. Many scientists reject its use on ethical grounds; others reject it over concerns about its scientific validity. (The Nazis weren't especially precise in their experimental methods.)

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#332

Post by throwawayboise » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #159

tomp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re making a strawman argument. The difference is between “being a local singer vs being a superstar”, not “being hungry vs fed”.

This thread stems from a comment that stated: > The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.

I took that as a figurative statement. Hungry for success, or for a way out of a perceived poor future outlook, perhaps not literally hungry (for food).

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#333

Post by vagrantJin » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #221

csharptwdec19 wrote: post #198

I'll be bold and say it's the media industry has a problem. I remember family members having problems/reservations with Weinstein's behavior back in the 90's . People like Corey Feltman have been speaking up for years. But nobody cares because we're getting good cinema and TV, right? A huge part of these industries are based on 'favors' and 'networking'. Toss in the theory that you have a higher-than-baseline level o…

Roman Polanski won an Oscar after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a 13 year old girl. Look at all these vile people applauding this villain, who couldn't accept his Oscar because he fled the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnNOBj26lk In some ways I think we may have over responded (Aziz Ansari is not Harvey Weinstein), but it was shocking what behavior people were excusing from the powerful even in r…

[flagged]

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#334

Post by ALittleLight » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #267

enriquto wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at all these vile people applauding this villain Acknowledging the artistic talent of a villain does not make you vile. Not at all. Imagine a clearer example. Imagine that somebody is on a life sentence convicted of a murder that they have commited. Do you think that this person has the right to write a book? Can this book be sent for participation at a literary contest? Can it win? Does the jury that gives th…

I can see why this might be considered debatable, but I firmly agree with the parent comment here. People who do vile shit should not be celebrated at all. To me, it's a requirement: if you want to be considered a person of great accomplishment, then you should be an upstanding citizen. I also think that celebrating vile people is a reflection on the "jury" here as well. If I discover someone celebrates the works of…

If someone said "I like The Pianist" I wouldn't judge them one way or the other, having never seen The Pianist myself. If someone said they liked Roman Polanski, I would have an opinion. I think extending honors or awards to him is more of the latter category.

I honestly would be fine with the award if Harrison Ford had simply continued on to explain that Polanski could not be there on account of being a child rapist on the run from justice. That would have put things nicely into perspective and, I think, clarified that they were awarding the accomplishment of the film and not honoring Polanski himself.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#335

Post by tabtab » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

bloopernova wrote: post #299

tabtab wrote: post #215

In other words, other "skills" can partly substitute for looks. One generally moans with their eyes closed. One thing that bugs me is that it's often said "men are animals" in that they lack self control. Yet many women wear provocative clothing at work to gain favors. Such women want it both ways: the ability to tease and taunt, but a magic lid on those when they don't want advances. They want to play with fire BUT…

Human beings are not animals. A responsible human is able to resist raping anyone they see. Minors are sexually assaulted, and they do not "taunt hungry tigers" as you put it. I urge you to visit a therapist and explore what has led you to the position you detailed in your comment. I honestly hope you are trolling, because the attitude you have towards women is deeply troubling. I wish you good luck in self improveme…

Re: Human beings are not animals.

Sorry, but they are. We're not the center of the universe; were not special.

Re: A responsible human is able to resist raping anyone they see.

In practice many are not. Live in reality as it is, not as it should be. World hunger won't go away simply because it "shouldn't happen". The universe ignores our shouldnt's, I'm just the messenger.

Re: Minors are sexually assaulted, and they do not "taunt hungry tigers" as you put it.

They are too young to understand that. But a 20 year old lady at the office showing off her breasts knows better.

Re: I urge you to visit a therapist and explore what has led you to the position you detailed in your comment.

It does seem I struct a nerve with my viewpoint and I honestly don't understand why. It's sound logical pragmatism to me.

And as I mention nearby, I'm NOT saying the aggressor is NOT responsible. I'm merely saying both sides have a responsibility. That's all. It may not even be an even responsibility, but provocateurs do have "a" responsibility regardless of fault scoring systems.

Don't ride a motorcycle without a helmet and don't go into the office without bra, because skipping either of those carries a KNOWN RISK. Don't taunt fate if you don't like its teeth.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#336

Post by pvarangot » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #255

pvarangot wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for the movie industry only for a couple of years and on very technical low-level roles, almost apprentice level. Think data tech or in color grading and only as a side gig. I also frequented movie festivals. Don't take this personally but I think you were at the wrong parties. Good signs to tell if you are "in" or not: do you know how to get illegal drugs on set? have you ever been to a private event in a h…

I worked in tech companies, this is why I was mentioning how this is different between companies and organizations.

Oh sorry I thought you were talking about roles on the entertainment industry. I also work in tech and worked in tech most of my life and even talking about this stuff in certain circles can get you fired. Not so much about the drugs thing, but for for reason the tech industry is very conservative regarding sex.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#337

Post by fl0wenol » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

wk_end wrote: post #291

mathgorges wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re point about cancel culture being against _private_ individuals is new to me. Where I think of people who have been cancelled I only think about celebrities. Reading about Justine Sacco’s story was interesting. Do you know where I can learn more about private individuals being cancelled? (Googling only brings up celebs)

Someone on HN once linked this Twitter thread and I made a point of jotting it down. https://mobile.twitter.com/sooppressed/status/12824046471609... I feel a real urge to say, for the record, that I don’t consider myself strongly “anti-cancel culture” or whatever, just that I understand the skepticism towards it and think that it’s referring to something that exists and at the very least has amped up since the end of…

Yeah, but huge grain of salt there. Several of references in that thread are being twisted out of proportion. Also, they couldn't be bothered to find single example where someone is being "canceled" or ridiculed for being too PC, which makes me think this is an axe-grind-with-the-left issue and less decrying the practice.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#338

Post by ta_dau » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

ohashi wrote: post #295

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever discussing Polanski's late career and the acclaim or scorn he has received, it must be mentioned that the girl in question has (later, when she grew up) expressed that she does not wish that Polanski be prosecuted or further punished by the industry.

He still raped a 13 year old. Why is anyone trying to defend or excuse his behavior? I don't care if Jesus came back from the dead and forgave him, it's still not OK.

Yeah, like: Raping is bad. If you rape anyone you deserve to rot in jail.

But drugging someone to rape them is particularly vile.

But not only did he drugged and raped a woman, that woman was not a woman but a girl. A 13 year old one.

For the life of me I can't understand how people defend this guy. I mean, all his pedo rapist friends in the entertainment industry obviously wouldn't be too hard on him, but everyone else.

Also, did anyone ever ask Jack Nicholson how an unaccompanied minor got into his party?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#339

Post by trulyme » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

varjag wrote: post #284

enriquto wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at all these vile people applauding this villain Acknowledging the artistic talent of a villain does not make you vile. Not at all. Imagine a clearer example. Imagine that somebody is on a life sentence convicted of a murder that they have commited. Do you think that this person has the right to write a book? Can this book be sent for participation at a literary contest? Can it win? Does the jury that gives th…

No need to imagine. There was a historic precedent of a convict writing super popular book about their personal struggle.

Or about Wild West (Karl May).

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#340

Post by ALittleLight » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

doitLP wrote: post #329

mywittyname wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why this might be considered debatable, but I firmly agree with the parent comment here. People who do vile shit should not be celebrated at all. To me, it's a requirement: if you want to be considered a person of great accomplishment, then you should be an upstanding citizen. I also think that celebrating vile people is a reflection on the "jury" here as well. If I discover someone celebrates the works of…

Sounds nice. But in the real world all humans are both sinners and saints at the same time. Good luck being the one with the power to decide what an upstanding citizen is. This is cancel culture in a nutshell. There’s a reason “don’t meet your heroes” is a saying. The problem is not appreciating the good works of someone who has also done bad things —- the problem is when we assume prima facie that just because someo…

I'm reminded of this quote which I once saw on lesswrong.com

The Sophisticate: “The world isn’t black and white. No one does pure good or pure bad. It’s all gray. Therefore, no one is better than anyone else.”

The Zetet: “Knowing only gray, you conclude that all grays are the same shade. You mock the simplicity of the two-color view, yet you replace it with a one-color view . . .”

—Marc Stiegler, David’s Sling

It's true that "all humans are both sinners and saints at the same time" - but it's absolutely not true that all, or even most, humans have done something as bad as raping a child (to say nothing of the other people mentioned in the parent comment). This kind of sentiment is appropriate when considering the kinds of mistakes or sins that all humans commit, identifying the grey areas that people are consistently in. The existence of grey areas does not mean that somethings aren't black and others aren't white. I think, in this case, we can clearly see that what Polanski did was very bad and worthy condemnation and not "Who among hasn't..."