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Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

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Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#381

Post by sytelus »

ng12 wrote: post #282
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

> Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform The independent contractor model works both ways. Uber has the right to avoid working with contractors who continually refuse work. You can't be picky about your work but also demand the company keep contracting you like you weren't. The independent contractor model doesn't map perfectly to gig work but it's much closer than traditional employees.

So what if rideshare companies puts you under water if you are not working 40hr week just like an employee? Given the almost duopoly, wouldn't there is no recourse for workers but to accept the same terms as employees.

The essence of contractor model is that your future offers are based on past work, not past declines. If you as a driver were giving quality ride and decided to take 6 months break, there shall be no impact on your rating.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#382

Post by barry-cotter »

the-dude wrote: post #249
jon-wood wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you don’t bat an eyelid at people needing a second or third job to make ends meet is in itself an indictment of the general state of the US.

I was amazed at the series Breaking Bad , that a teacher would take a summer job to make ends meet. At a carwash no less. I have brought this up here before and got all kinds of justifications : he has a big house, he has a special needs kid. I don't think there is any teacher in NL taking summer jobs to make ends meet.

> I was amazed at the series Breaking Bad, that a teacher would take a summer job to make ends meet. At a carwash no less.

Breaking Bad isn’t supposed to be a documentary. Teachers don’t have summer jobs at car washes. Tutoring is both easier and pays better, as does summer school. Working at a car wash is an example of shitty choices, as is his entire relationship with his wife. It’s like his decision to go into drugs in the first place. He’s a public sector employee. He does not need to make drugs to get excellent health care. He does it because he wants to. Working at the car wash is not something he needs to do, it’s a way of expressing his martyr complex.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#383

Post by Skunkleton »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #351
Skunkleton wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead of expecting customers to foot the bill. Either way, the customer will be paying this bill.

I’d rather my cost go up and tipping disappear (leaving the total the same) if it means I don’t have a societal obligation to tip. Then I can actually use tips for what they’re supposed to be for: above and beyond service.

I think the idea of a tipping is demeaning personally. You wouldn’t tip a doctor who worked extra hard for you, would you?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#384

Post by matmann2001 »

username90 wrote: post #361
matmann2001 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! If the free market results in employers offering shitty choices that take advantage of workers with limited options, the government should step in and attempt to correct the power-imbalance that puts the workers at life- and liberty-threatening disadvantages. Extrapolating from your logic, indentured servitude would still be allowed to exist.

Banning a form of work where workers owns the means of production doesn't seem to be in the workers interest. I'd rather they regulate it in a better way, for example rewrite union laws to make it possible for gig workers to unionize.

Where did I mention the banning of a form of work?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#385

Post by OliverGilan »

paxys wrote: post #365
bgorman wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just fundamentally wrong. As a kid I refereed soccer games. There was a set cost structure for each game depending on age group and whether I was assistant referee or center referee. There was a system where I could sign up in advance if I wanted the work or not. Uber drivers know exactly what they are getting into and they are free to quit at any time. I was not an employee of the soccer leagues, I was an in…

> I was not an employee of the soccer leagues, I was an independent contractor Actually you were an employee, just misclassified. If you took them to court you would likely win. Being able to set your own hours, working part time, working for other employers, quitting at any time - these are all possible in an employee relationship.

Under current laws you are correct but I think he is trying to highlight the point that maybe the laws shouldn't have this dichotomy and we should recognize there are instances where not being a full employee yet not filling the exact current definition of a contractor should exist

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#386

Post by wwweston »

apsec112 wrote: post #147
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

Uber and Lyft already did this in California after the passage of AB5 earlier this year. That's why they now have price estimates instead of giving exact values ahead of time.

Sounds like a positive impact of AB5?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#387

Post by sudosysgen »

ng12 wrote: post #282
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

> Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform The independent contractor model works both ways. Uber has the right to avoid working with contractors who continually refuse work. You can't be picky about your work but also demand the company keep contracting you like you weren't. The independent contractor model doesn't map perfectly to gig work but it's much closer than traditional employees.

Uber is arguing that drivers are not their contractors, but contractors of the riders. Therefore, Uber denying some wouldn't be the right of Uber unless they were contractors to Uber, in which case they would be misclassified and actually employees as per AB5.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#388

Post by dcftoapv »

gamblor956 wrote: post #344
dcftoapv wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@tom No, it's not being built. The train that is currently under construction will connect the airport terminals to a cab stand and car rental station less than a mile from the airport because LA taxi drivers threw a shit fit when they suggested building a train into downtown and Santa Monica. By the way, we're paying $4 billion for that. $4 billion to carry passengers less than a mile from the airport so they can th…

The train that is currently under construction will connect the airport terminals to a cab stand and car rental station less than a mile from the airport because LA taxi drivers threw a shit fit when they suggested building a train into downtown and Santa Monica. This is false to the point of being deliberate FUD. The LAX people mover is $4 billion because the FAA requires a fuck-ton of care to be taken so that const…

No, it's not. Nothing you wrote contradicted anything I said. The ultimate passenger destinations are less than 1 mile from the airport. They do not include connections to ongoing transportation other than cars, buses, and taxis. It cost $4 billion for something that adds little to no value.

LA taxi drivers were actively protesting outside of the airport when the original train was proposed. Stop lying.

I agree with you. It is bizarre that they have any influence whatsoever, but they do, and they have been forcefully exerting it for decades.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#389

Post by sudosysgen »

brian_cloutier wrote: post #297
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to stay independent, fine. Then actually treat them like independent contractors. Let them set rates. Let them decline rides without facing penalties by the platform. Make the changes necessary to fit the independent contractor model. And not just the rideshare company, but the state too: these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or th…

> these workers need unemployment insurance, as Covid has shown, and somebody needs to pay for it: be it the workers or the ridesharing businesses. The state could also pay for it, through tax revenue. Unemployment insurance seems like a great fit for a government, since any kind of massive correlated unemployment, as we're experiencing now, would absolutely wipe out any private insurer.

Sure. Once the State nationalizes unemployment insurance and healthcare insurance then we can reclassify them as contractors.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#390

Post by coding123 »

grandmczeb wrote: post #290
smsm42 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how that works in practice? One of the major advantages of Uber for me was fixed price upfront. So now I don't know the price until I order the ride? What if the driver sets an excessive price - can I decline the ride?

See https://www.uber.com/blog/california/set-your-fares/ My understanding is that the rider is presented with a range of possible fares before searching (e.g. $9-10). If they are matched with a driver asking for a higher fare than that range they have the option to decline.

So basically they will keep declining until they get the best price. It sounds like the proposed strategy is hogwash.
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