Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#371

Post by bad_user » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:28 PM UTC

Myrmornis wrote: post #287

bad_user wrote: post #249

What I don't understand is why in the world are companies allowed to buy patents in the first place? At the very least, patents should NOT be transferable. How is it acceptable for companies with big pockets to simply buy 6,000 patents and then sue the shit out of whomever they don't like? I mean, to some degree, I accept that patents in the health-care industry are helping, because research labs spend years and enor…

Know nothing about this. But say they couldn't be transferred. Then you could have moribund companies holding a patent and doing nothing with it thus stopping other people from doing something that would benefit the world. But given that they can be transferred, there is a market, so a moribund company has an incentive to pass the patent on, and the patented thing gets realized, by someone.

The fix is easy - if you can't bring it to market, then you lose it.

Or lets just ban patents altogether. No matter the negative effects, it would be saner than what we currently have.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#372

Post by VikingCoder » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:29 PM UTC

Datsundere wrote: post #366

cs702 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unhappy with Apple and Microsoft too, but the real enemy is a broken patent system that creates the perverse incentives that motivate companies to launch lawsuits like this one, to the detriment of society. Regardless of who wins, we have already lost, because we have a patent system that discourages innovation and competition in software! Maybe the prospect of patent Armageddon will finally force lawmakers to ad…

Don't blame the patent system. While it is true that patent system should be reformed/eliminated, those companies chose to take advantage of it. Just because you can steal something when nobody is looking doesn't mean it's justified to be stolen.

Companies are required to maximize their profits, and patents are a legal framework for creating profit.

I absolutely blame the patent system, and it's absurd of you to suggest otherwise.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#373

Post by cloverich » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:31 PM UTC

Datsundere wrote: post #366

cs702 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unhappy with Apple and Microsoft too, but the real enemy is a broken patent system that creates the perverse incentives that motivate companies to launch lawsuits like this one, to the detriment of society. Regardless of who wins, we have already lost, because we have a patent system that discourages innovation and competition in software! Maybe the prospect of patent Armageddon will finally force lawmakers to ad…

Don't blame the patent system. While it is true that patent system should be reformed/eliminated, those companies chose to take advantage of it. Just because you can steal something when nobody is looking doesn't mean it's justified to be stolen.

> Don't blame the patent system. While it is true that patent system should be reformed/eliminated ...

But thats the point. You can blame the companies all you want, another will always be there to step up and take advantage of it. I do blame the companies, but what does it matter? Are we likely going to see an Apple Boycott? I doubt it, and changing one companies business practices will have little impact on the industry as a whole.

But the patent system - that's a single target we can all align against, whose elimination would solve these issues immediately.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#374

Post by pg » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:32 PM UTC

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #224

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend. Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents. All through this, they've b…

I'm sure Google didn't try to buy the patents to do this with them.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#375

Post by moocowduckquack » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:40 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #341

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend. Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents. All through this, they've b…

> then knowingly violated those patents I can't compile hello world in any language without violating dozens of patents.

Which ones?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#376

Post by wmeredith » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:44 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #346

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

I'm unhappy with Apple and Microsoft too, but the real enemy is a broken patent system that creates the perverse incentives that motivate companies to launch lawsuits like this one, to the detriment of society. Regardless of who wins, we have already lost, because we have a patent system that discourages innovation and competition in software! Maybe the prospect of patent Armageddon will finally force lawmakers to ad…

This is the logical equivalent of, "don't hate the player, hate the game." And it holds about as much water. If any company in the world has the warchest to bow out of petty patent politics, it's Apple.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#377

Post by moocowduckquack » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:44 PM UTC

VikingCoder wrote: post #372

Datsundere wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame the patent system. While it is true that patent system should be reformed/eliminated, those companies chose to take advantage of it. Just because you can steal something when nobody is looking doesn't mean it's justified to be stolen.

Companies are required to maximize their profits, and patents are a legal framework for creating profit. I absolutely blame the patent system, and it's absurd of you to suggest otherwise.

How about blaming both. These positions don't seem exclusive.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#378

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:45 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #341

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend. Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents. All through this, they've b…

> then knowingly violated those patents I can't compile hello world in any language without violating dozens of patents.

[deleted]

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#379

Post by minwcnt5 » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:46 PM UTC

infocollector wrote: post #339

curiousDog wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm now ashamed I ever worked at Microsoft and I'm assuming a lot of devs there will feel the same way :(

Is working at Google and Apple any different?

Um... yes?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#380

Post by debian69 » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 1:47 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

I love the way it was a group of 6 or 7 tech companies who bought the patents but you choose to single out apple. Was there a reason for this in particular ?