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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#371

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

The broader conversation is impossible to have. “What policies do we need to ensure due process without compromising the effectiveness of immigration enforcement?” Even trying to start the conversation feels like a troll, because when the system looks like it does today who’s going to concede the premise that immigration enforcement shouldn’t be compromised?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#372

Post by anon7725 »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #358
blinky81 wrote: post #354

I cannot for the life of me understand why Americans have such a problem with other people coming here to seek a better life. Half this country has been tricked into seeing hardworking immigrants as a threat to their safety and livelihood — but by all metrics, immigrants are a net positive to society. I also take issue with the idea that this extreme exclusionary mindset is somehow new to America. A lot of people fra…

> The people of America, unfortunately, are prone to drastically evil actions when they are tricked by opportunistic political actors into believing their way of life is somehow under attack. All people are like this. When the economic prospects for you look bleak, it's very aggravating to see someone you believe is an outsider is succeeding. We see microcosms of this in the bay area where people blame tech workers f…

> When the economic prospects for you look bleak

This is the richest nation on earth with a roughly 4% unemployment rate we’re talking about here.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#373

Post by chairmansteve »

pge wrote: post #93
clusterfook wrote: post #2

> But for interesting HN discussion... anyone got any juice on why this is happening. Is there orders going down the chain of command from the president to do this sort of thing. Was this behaviour always there but less reported before? Are they more emboldened by the current environment?

The current administration has set targets for numbers of people deported(which ICE is currently behind on). That creates an incentive to skip due process in order to get more people deported more quickly (and the awareness that there will no consequences for doing so probably contributes as well)

Explains the deportation of Canadian and European tourists. They need to get their numbers up.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#374

Post by kentm »

ohgr wrote: post #346
kentm wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been in tech for about 2 decades now, and the general culture has always been to disregard ethics and social impact. How many times have we heard “We’re just building tools. Tools are apolitical and ethically neutral, it’s how you use them that matters!” It turns out that is actually not the case. Plus the insistence that we can cordon off an area of life and designate it non political is incredibly common but a…

I think a lot of that attitude is self-justification to proceed as they intend without moral compass. Personally I can't do that. Everything we do has a consequence. I've got a copy of Careless People sitting in front of me I'm scared to read at the moment.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

It’s definitely a factor (perhaps the dominant factor) and the easiest place to see it at play is on HN whenever the adtech industry is being criticized.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#375

Post by dweinus »

AustinDev wrote: post #344
beloch wrote: post #291

Let's do a time warp. It's 2018. Children are being separated from their parents and kept in cages[1]. It's really important to notice that the pictures in this article are not from reporters, leaks or anything of the sort. They were released by Customs and Border Protection and, no doubt, make things look better than they were. What has changed since Trump's first term? Yes, there is now a stronger sensitivity to se…

Let's do another time warp. It's 2000, Bill Clinton is about to wrap up his second term and has deported more people in that term than any president ever at nearly 7,000,000 deportations. Trump barely had 2,000,000 deportations in his first term. Trump's first term was the lowest level of deportations for any administration since Carter. Obama, Reagan, Both Bushes, Clinton and Biden all deported more people every ter…

Oh cool, horrendous things like this have been done for years. I guess it's fine then, human rights violations aren't real if someone else did them too. /s

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#376

Post by 47282847 »

mc32 wrote: post #254
rsfern wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I don’t understand is how this is even a choice the parents have the legal right to make, assuming their US citizen children do not have passports (I don’t know if the answer to that is publicly known). Can a child legally be taken out of the country without a passport and some kind of verifications?

The same happens to US citizens who have/bear children in other countries. Moreover some will do much as assume the children do not have local citizenship but US citizenship despite being born in that non-US country.

Only few countries give birthright to children born on their territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#377

Post by Waterluvian »

whoknowsidont wrote: post #351
nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

When you're a sheltered suburbanite nerd (yeah, even the "rural" ones) who will never have to truly worry about being in this situation, this is just an exciting news story to squabble over and smugly flounder about on your keyboard. Deplorable.

I feel more disgusted by the Americans who know this is wrong but do nothing. I have no patience for evil people, but the truly damned are all the Americans who know and sense better but do not or cannot act properly.

If deporting U.S. CITIZEN CHILDREN does not send you to the streets with fire and fury, you are well and truly lost. So much damn talk over the decades I've been alive about patriotism and liberty from America, but when a moment unquestionably calls for action, it turns out Americans were just unserious cosplayers the whole damn time.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#378

Post by ridgeguy »

generalizations wrote: post #368
nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

Either the technicalities matter, or our legal system runs on vibes. I think it is important.

Our legal system has always depended on vibes to mitigate technically correct unjust or catastrophic outcomes. It's broadly labelled "prosecutorial discretion", and operates at every level of the justice system.

IMHO, it's essential.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#379

Post by tomrod »

SauciestGNU wrote: post #356
NewJazz wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't let these kids have toothpaste the last time they did this.

Subdermal tracking implants then? Although I wouldn't put it past these drooling sadists to start cutting things out of their prisoners.

Much simpler: don't jail kids, don't jail parents in deportation proceedings.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#380

Post by chairmansteve »

scarface_74 wrote: post #152
pge wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current administration has set targets for numbers of people deported(which ICE is currently behind on). That creates an incentive to skip due process in order to get more people deported more quickly (and the awareness that there will no consequences for doing so probably contributes as well)

And while trying to meet those numbers, they are being specifically told not to do mass raids of farms and other business in red states that will hurt Trump voters

Yep. Their rabble rousing lies are meeting the hard reality that the country depends on these workers. They can't deliver without destroying the food and construction industries. So it's random German tourists at the border.
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