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Gang crisis shaking Sweden

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Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#371

Post by fomine3 »

codr7 wrote: post #278
davemccrea wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you offer some specifics? In what parts of Swedish society is this degradation most acute?

I'm 46 yo. When I grew up, the Swedish state took care of a lot of things; public transport, phone services, health care including pharmacies, postal services etc. It was mostly cheap and reliable. These days all of it has been privatized, which has made it more expensive and not nearly as reliable. Even government institutions, like the tax office have gone seriously downhill lately. You used to be able to go there…

Poor tax office is interesting because tax office is a rare agency by government that earns money. There's a motivation to make service better, unlike some other public services.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#372

Post by oblio »

debatem1 wrote: post #367
oblio wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example: > In this chapter I am going to demonstrate that Arab education, in all its various forms, teaches the values of the dominant Arab culture. Education in the Arab world, both formal and informal, constantly seeks to mold the actions and thinking of the individual along the lines of the culturally regular patterns of behavior described in Chapter 17. > >>. It isn’t found in the formal curriculum. You won’t…

I asked you to be specific about who and why and you still have not done that. I am getting from this that you aren't keen on schooling based on conformism and that you believe Arab schools teach conformism. Leaving aside the question of whether that position has merit, what would you do with that information? Would you ban immigration by Arabs? From Arabic countries? By people educated in Arabic schools, who may not…

Points based visa system, like in Canada.

Dock points for countries with different alphabets, bad educational systems, bad research & development, etc, give extra points if they can prove "extra curriculars" that align with the local values, for example volunteering, civic action, etc. Oh, give extra points if the countries have strong ties to the EU, economic and otherwise. For example trade agreements, cultural exchange programs, etc.

Send back every illegal economic migrant. Saw a comment recently about a Guinean that was in Tunisia (safe country), Algeria (safe), Switzerland (safe), France (safe), but they absolutely, positively, HAD to be in Luxembourg.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#373

Post by snird »

zztop44 wrote: post #180
snird wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a racial or a religious thing. It's a cultural thing. There are migrants from the same countries that integrated well. The problem is mostly with the "asylum seekers" who never wanted to integrate.

Is that the problem? Do you have any evidence for that belief? Or are you just throwing it out there based on a feeling or hunch?

Sweden is the only country that accepted "asylum seekers" without extensive background check (to verify they actually are asylum seekers) and granted them permanent residency - which makes them legally immune to deportation.

These two facts make those people feel "safe" to commit high crimes.

It is both in this article and many others, it's not like this is a secret.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#374

Post by debatem1 »

oblio wrote: post #372
debatem1 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked you to be specific about who and why and you still have not done that. I am getting from this that you aren't keen on schooling based on conformism and that you believe Arab schools teach conformism. Leaving aside the question of whether that position has merit, what would you do with that information? Would you ban immigration by Arabs? From Arabic countries? By people educated in Arabic schools, who may not…

Points based visa system, like in Canada. Dock points for countries with different alphabets, bad educational systems, bad research & development, etc, give extra points if they can prove "extra curriculars" that align with the local values, for example volunteering, civic action, etc. Oh, give extra points if the countries have strong ties to the EU, economic and otherwise. For example trade agreements, cultural exc…

> different alphabets

What does this have to do with conformity?

> Oh, give extra points if the countries have strong ties to the EU

Norway does not use a standard English alphabet. Are you for or against Norwegian immigrants?

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#375

Post by injeolmi_love »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #349
injeolmi_love wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slovakia has a gdp per capita of around $21k and has stagnated with low growth since 2008. It has relatively high hdi ratings but these have also begun to decline. Both of those things are really not good for a country that hasn’t climbed out of the middle income trap yet. It’s a beautiful place, and there are certainly worse countries, but calling it one of the most developed countries is stretching the facts beyond…

>Slovakia has a gdp per capita of around $21k and has stagnated with low growth since 2008 Firstly, which developed countries (that don't have "cheat codes") haven't stagnated GDP-wise post 2008? AFAIK, most of them. >a country that hasn’t climbed out of the middle income trap yet Secondly, GDP growth as a number on it's own, is pretty useless, as it's not a 1:1 representation of quality of life increase for the aver…

You’re right about cheat codes - liberal policies such as freedoms for immigrants, intellectuals, and entrepreneurs are the cheat codes that allow societies to outperform. Indeed, if you exclude all the countries that are successfully using these policies, there aren’t many outperforming Slovakia and many doing much worse. But my point stands that fascism is not good for the native population it proposes to protect, unless you believe that purity of blood/national spirit is itself a value.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#376

Post by whearyou »

bad_user wrote: post #97
woodruffw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what, exactly, is the "elephant in the room"? If this is meant to be a dogwhistle about immigration, it seems appropriate to observe that many of the countries TFA compares Sweden to (Greece, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands) have similar immigration patterns without the same violent crime rates.

I don't know about the others, but Greece tends to be a transit country, not a final destination. It does get immigrants, but those interested in crime tend to migrate to higher-GDP countries. I can see the same trend in my country too. The people coming here, for now, are very hardworking and law-abiding, whereas those interested in crime tend to migrate, our natives included, too. It's good to know that immigrants,…

I think you describe the ideological framework that immigrants in the U.S. have. Because they've had to work hard to integrate they value what they've acquired and work hard to uphold it. The result is they increase social cohesion by their adherence to the country's shared myths/ideals, and as they must generally pursue economic integration are economically productive as well.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#377

Post by oblio »

alephnerd wrote: post #287
oblio wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language. English is greatly preferred as a language these days.

Not just language. Also social mobility. For example, in the 70s-90s Lebanese would have an easy time emigrating to France (and many have) due to French fluency, yet plenty preferred moving to Australia, Canada, or the US instead as there were more opportunities to climb up. Conversely, there is plenty of Chinese and Indian immigration to Europe, but it tends to be blue collar in origin, as opportunities and social m…

Ummm... it's also about > emigrated where.

The US, Canada and Australia get upper middle class/upper class immigrants. Naturally they're more upwardly socially mobile.

Europe basically gets anyone who can fly 2 hours, get on a boat for 20 hours or drive/be driven for 20 hours.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#378

Post by oblio »

debatem1 wrote: post #374
oblio wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Points based visa system, like in Canada. Dock points for countries with different alphabets, bad educational systems, bad research & development, etc, give extra points if they can prove "extra curriculars" that align with the local values, for example volunteering, civic action, etc. Oh, give extra points if the countries have strong ties to the EU, economic and otherwise. For example trade agreements, cultural exc…

> different alphabets What does this have to do with conformity? > Oh, give extra points if the countries have strong ties to the EU Norway does not use a standard English alphabet. Are you for or against Norwegian immigrants?

I'm tired of this. Read the friendly book.

You want to preach from your high horse. It's not just about conformity. There are a lot of misaligned axes. Again, read the book.

Cultures can be more similar and more different. On many axes it doesn't matter, on some it matters a great deal.

> Norway does not use a standard English alphabet. Are you for or against Norwegian immigrants?

This is just obtuse, and we both know it.

Toodaloo!

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#379

Post by Levitz »

skywhopper wrote: post #112
Levitz wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyway, the Right party pulled the balance of power from the Left and formed a centre/right coalition more than a year ago, because of all the bad people coming here and doing bad things. Weren't they going to fix this? While I do think problems are way overblown, I don't know if you realize, these issues take generations to fix. If there is one legitimate scary bit about immigration is that it has VERY long-reachin…

Why would you want to deport someone’s grandkid?

Because cultural differences have pushed him to crimes.

For example. I'm Spanish. My neighbors are Moroccan. The father didn't once in his life acknowledge my mother. He wouldn't talk to her. He would ignore her if she talked. To him, my mother was barely a person because she was a woman. Now this is extreme, but legal behavior, if it ever came to pass that he crossed some lines he might have gotten deported.

His son though? Stealing, selling drugs and beating his sisters are some of the things he has done, but he is a Spanish citizen, just like any other, so there is no magic "back to your country" card to play.

My point is that it's legitimate to pick and choose who you let into a country because the consequences of doing so are far-reaching. Because even if you might be able to deal swiftly with the guy you let in, every human being takes culture with him, and culture spreads. Integration is the most important phase of immigration, along with making sure those people you let in aren't going to be pushed into a life of crime and I don't think anyone ignoring that is taking immigration seriously.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#380

Post by selimthegrim »

Dah00n wrote: post #214
egeozcan wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they already started a new life, aren't they already home?

Ask this about Ukrainians and then ask the same about Muslims and you have a discussion, well, kinda like the one in this thread.

Hoo boy wait until we get to Lipka and Crimean Tatars (the former of which have been integrated in the US for over 100 years now)
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