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Gang crisis shaking Sweden

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Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#271

Post by marginalia_nu »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #250
marginalia_nu wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's largely the result of an ideological deadlock, where legitimate logistical concerns about immigration and integration were lumped up with islamophobia and racism. Immigration was also seen as desirable in order to address the demographic crisis and low birth rates. This in turn had the ironic side-effect of cementing a sort of structural racism where all these immigrants showed up and were given at best estate h…

"Turns out very few people want to lead a shitty life doing menial jobs as a second class citizen. Isn't that weird?" This describes the huge population of gastarbeiter in West Germany in the 1960s and 1970s, but I am not aware of any violent movements arising from them being unhappy with their lot. (The violence one does remember from those years was from a different demographic entirely.) It describes the modern UA…

There are a bunch of other factors as well. For one, the Mexican cartels are trying to expand into Europe, and basically offering franchise rights to local gangs. Sweden isn't uniquely targeted in this, but it sure did have a whole lot of dissatisfied youths.

The Swedish legal system is also not very well suited to dealing with the problem, and the system for amending laws has a lot of inertia.

A big problem is laws against information sharing between government agencies dating back to the shocking revelations about the STASI during the fall of the DDR. In calmer times this is a fine principle, especially given how much data is stored on Swedish citizens, but when you want to deal with organized crime, it's absolutely disastrous.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#272

Post by oblio »

alephnerd wrote: post #268
oblio wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked at various leaders in places like France, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany?!?

Europe in general is the backup plan for most immigrants. Our parents preferred immigrating to US, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand instead. You only ended up in Europe if you couldn't end up in those 4. Netherlands and the UK have only started to change in the past 5-10 years. Aside from politics, British Asians honestly aren't that notable in the business space. Most British Asian billionaires tend to be Indian an…

Language. English is greatly preferred as a language these days.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#274

Post by alephnerd »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #267
alephnerd wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs to be upvoted. This is exactly what I've noticed across Europe. It feels like there's a glass ceiling outside of the arts and maybe politics. It doesn't feel like there are role models there like Satya Nadella, Jerry Yang, Alex Padilla, or Obama.

I don't think the issue is so much about skin color, as it is about language proficiency and integration. If you aren't fluent in Swedish or very proficient in western-style English, you have a significant uphill battle in terms of career and life prospects. You have Iranians and Syrians and what have you in all manner of well paying jobs. But there is really no plausible path from refugee to those types of jobs.

I wasn't saying a racial glass ceiling but a ethnic one, largely for the same reasons you mentioned. Lack of language proficiency plus a bit of bias against foreign degrees forced plenty of white collar immigrants to take blue collar jobs in Europe (and even Canada). This decreases social mobility as you don't have the network to get an "in" into plenty of well paying industries. While skills absolutely matter, some form of network really helps out.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#275

Post by Legogris »

davemccrea wrote: post #237
codr7 wrote: post #179

I grew up in Sweden, moved around a bit in Europe and lately came back. What worries me about the country is not primarily gang criminality, but the general degradation of everything that was once good about Swedish society. Probably still better than a lot of places. Immigrants who come here often praise the system, how well everything works here; but they have no idea how well it used to work.

Can you offer some specifics? In what parts of Swedish society is this degradation most acute?

For one: Public healthcare used to be reasonably accessible. Now it's not rare to wait >6 months to get examined for anything beyond emergencies. Also true for mental health.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#276

Post by arp242 »

searealist wrote: post #213
zztop44 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So quite a while after the peak in immigration in the mid/late 2010s.

Sweden murder rate over time, it trends down until the mid 2010s: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SWE/sweden/murder-homi...

Are we looking at the same chart like? Because that chart shows it's been roughly steady since 1990, with some peaks up and some peaks down: 1991 was an outlier upwards, 2012 an outlier downwards, but overall: roughly stable. This kind of variation is to be expected since in absolute numbers it's a relatively small number of people.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#277

Post by giraffe_lady »

someDevFella23 wrote: post #225
giraffe_lady wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No we’re not at all. ironic how you can group like 30 countries together there and call them all racist Acknowledging that some cultures are not compatible with ours is not racist. Acknowledging that some that come to Europe do not value European values or way of life is not racist. I’m my experience with Europeans we can discuss this difference openly. In my experience I am weary with being honest with Americans

> some cultures are not compatible with ours

No that is extremely racist sorry!

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#278

Post by codr7 »

davemccrea wrote: post #237
codr7 wrote: post #179

I grew up in Sweden, moved around a bit in Europe and lately came back. What worries me about the country is not primarily gang criminality, but the general degradation of everything that was once good about Swedish society. Probably still better than a lot of places. Immigrants who come here often praise the system, how well everything works here; but they have no idea how well it used to work.

Can you offer some specifics? In what parts of Swedish society is this degradation most acute?

I'm 46 yo. When I grew up, the Swedish state took care of a lot of things; public transport, phone services, health care including pharmacies, postal services etc. It was mostly cheap and reliable.

These days all of it has been privatized, which has made it more expensive and not nearly as reliable.

Even government institutions, like the tax office have gone seriously downhill lately. You used to be able to go there and get professional help in reasonable time. These days it's a joke in comparison. There isn't even a tax office anymore, it's been lumped together with the unemployment office and God knows what and staffed with immigrants just of the bus who don't know shit about anything.

You used to be able to ask the police for help and expect to get it, politely; these days I'm more afraid of cops than criminals to be honest.

I could go on and on.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#279

Post by resolutebat »

letrowekwel wrote: post #256
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #151

[flagged]

It's not xenophobia to point out that a nation's migration policy is failing, when it obviously is. It's a systemic issue, not some cultures or people being better or worse.

It is an issue of some cultures being objectively worse. Many immigrants come from places where the rights of women are not respected, and surprise surprise, the incidence of rape has gone up by 50% between 2008 and 2018, and first/second gen immigrants now comprise 60% of rapists in Sweden.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8330751/

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#280

Post by bad_user »

usrusr wrote: post #218
bad_user wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the others, but Greece tends to be a transit country, not a final destination. It does get immigrants, but those interested in crime tend to migrate to higher-GDP countries. I can see the same trend in my country too. The people coming here, for now, are very hardworking and law-abiding, whereas those interested in crime tend to migrate, our natives included, too. It's good to know that immigrants,…

Immigrants are rarely much of a crime problem. First and second generation descendants on the other hand... there really aren't any simple solutions, at least not as long as we agree that an individual cannot be punished for a statistic about their future descendants.

This is factually not true, and you can easily see it in the correlation between waves of immigrants and the crime rates going immediately up. We aren't talking about just organized crime, but also petty crime, rape, etc.

Usually, after 2 generations, most people adopt the local culture. You can see it in quite tangible metrics, like, for example, they stop having many children, with the fertility rate dropping to the Western average. And if first and second generation descendants become a problem, indeed, then we can talk about society being broken, and the solution is to fix it, not to stop immigration.

For me, talking about slowing down immigration is like talking about slowing down the economy. It can't be done without people eventually starving.

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