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Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

fiod.nl

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Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#371

Post by amanaplanacanal »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #339
chitowneats wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Some will ... arrest anyone who's ever donated to Planned Parenthood" This is a hysterical prediction.

Various states already prohibit using public money to fund abortions, a prohibition on private funds for an act they consider extremely illegal and equivalent to murder is not a stretch. "12 states prohibit state family planning funds from going to any entity that provides abortions." https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/state-family...

If planned parenthood isn't performing any abortions in a state where it is illegal, how could funding them ever be made illegal? None of this makes sense.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#372

Post by kube-system »

dcolkitt wrote: post #363
kube-system wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 5th doesn't give you privacy to anything outside of your thoughts inside your head, which isn't related to anything being discussed here. Everything else in the US is covered by the 4th.

Wrong. For example courts have consistently ruled that you can’t be compelled to unlock your phone or decrypt your hard disk if you’re invoking the 5th

That is a perfect example of how my statement is 100% correct. (many/most) Courts in the US have ruled that you can't be compelled to provide a decryption key only when it is, as I said:

> inside your head

If it is written down, biometric, etc it does not get protection under the 5th. Those realms are not inside your head, and so they are protected by the 4th, and subject to warrant.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#373

Post by PeterisP »

akimball wrote: post #349
wolongong942 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt you could buy a house anonymously anywhere in the west. Typically all large transactions get auto reported to the financial intelligence unit, with the tax man getting access to the data set as well. If paid via crypto they'd find out when the recipient cashes out, forcing him/her to do source of funds.

This is accomplished every day in every country in the western hemisphere by means of shell companies.

Current EU AML laws are full of requirements for explicit registration of the true beneficiaries for all these companies (including chains of companies); anonymous ownership of companies is becoming illegal in the last couple years.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#374

Post by jasonlotito »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #216
biglearner1day wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it is always under the guise of anti-money laundering, anti-terrorism or whatever other reason they can find to excuse their inexcusable actions. Take mass government surveillance for example.

HN in its current avatar would probably cheer on if the Patriot Act was enacted today. Been on this site for a decade. Never seen it this filled with Big Gov and Big Tech apologists.

> HN in its current avatar would probably cheer on if the Patriot Act was enacted today.

No.

> Been on this site for a decade. Never seen it this filled with Big Gov and Big Tech apologists.

Probably because you disagree with tech/gov right now. It's really a case of "the leopard ate my face." HN has a long history of supporting "Big Tech." The issue is, you don't like how big tech is using it's power now, but were fine with it using that power years ago.

> Never seen it this filled with Big Gov and Big Tech apologists.

It's always been that way. You just refused to see it because it aligned with your views.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#375

Post by [deleted] »

naet wrote: post #362
clippablematt wrote: post #60

Ah yes, arrest developers of open source privacy code and blame them for North Korea money laundering rather than going after the people actually committing crimes. Sounds about right. Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right! Sorry that it makes the polices job harder, but our rights are more important. And didn’t we go through all this already in the 90s? Are we now gonna start arresting all cryptographers? This…

I'm in favor of privacy, but if you're profiting off designing and operating a system that you know is being used to facilitate large amounts of criminal money laundering (some going to known foreign government agents), you're more or less asking to be arrested. You can pose an argument that your service has some positive impact in certain cases, but you can't flat deny any negative impact or responsibility for conse…

[deleted]

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#376

Post by mr_beans »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #153
whatisweb3 wrote: post #128

My comment from 2 days ago: > The US sanctioning Tornado Cash and the resulting repercussions is deeply concerning. Whether or not you like crypto, you should not be supporting this if you are a researcher, academic, technologist, cryptographer, or privacy advocate. The code for Tornado Cash is a series of cryptographic and mathematical functions that can be repurposed for a variety of applications unrelated to priva…

> US sanctioning Tornado Cash Zero evidence this is connected to U.S. sanctions. Dutch law protects even cash transactions less than American law. When the investigation started, in June, the U.S. had already released evidence Tornado Cash was used to launder money. If a Dutch person kept working on it, it might be trivial to show they broke Dutch criminal statute.

The NL government org that arrested him specifically mentions the US sanctions in their press release https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado...

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#377

Post by akimball »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #360
akimball wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bronze age? No. Once gold leaves the sovereigns borders, it is a neutral money. Since 1971? Yes. That is a very brief experiment in monetary history, and quite Lindy. It can be validly estimated to have 51 years of life left in it (albeit with vast error bars, difficult to calculate).

> Bronze age? No. Once gold leaves the sovereigns borders, it is a neutral money "Neutral money" has no meaning in an era when information travels at the same speed as trade. (It arguably lacks any meaning today.) Bronze Age civilizations didn't have the surplus labor to haul around gold. (Nor to test it.) Though they didn't have coins, they used token money--from engraved clay and stone markers to shells and beads.…

The attachment of provenance to an item makes it non-fungible, removing it's moneyness, until and unless that history can be removed.

Just-so stories based on implausible premises -”didnt have surplus labor" lol- are conspicuously unpersuasive.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#378

Post by malermeister »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #214
threeseed wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather than going after the people actually committing crimes Actually they go after the people committing the crime AND those facilitating it. > Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right (a) Not a human right, (b) not enshrined in any country's law, (c) does not absolve illegal behaviour.

Ah, the famed “Hacker” News users advocating for the Big State and against privacy.

Just because you're a hacker doesn't mean you have to be an anarchist, anti-state extremist.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#379

Post by [deleted] »

dcolkitt wrote: post #363
kube-system wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 5th doesn't give you privacy to anything outside of your thoughts inside your head, which isn't related to anything being discussed here. Everything else in the US is covered by the 4th.

Wrong. For example courts have consistently ruled that you can’t be compelled to unlock your phone or decrypt your hard disk if you’re invoking the 5th

[deleted]

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#380

Post by amanaplanacanal »

RansomStark wrote: post #369
threeseed wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather than going after the people actually committing crimes Actually they go after the people committing the crime AND those facilitating it. > Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right (a) Not a human right, (b) not enshrined in any country's law, (c) does not absolve illegal behaviour.

> Not a human right The UN disagrees. Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks". [0] You can argue what the right to privacy means and the limitations of that freedo…

Does the UN declaration have the force of law anywhere? Or is is more of a "we wish it worked like this" document?
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