The bottom is dropping out of Netflix • Hacker News Board

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#371

Post by yata69420 » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

bin_bash wrote: post #345

californical wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really stealing if they wouldn’t have ever paid for it in the first place? If it’s not easy to find and use on a subscription service that I already have, I’m just not gonna try to search for it or pay for it. What difference would it make if I pirated it and watched it anyways? (FWIW I personally don’t pirate anything, I just really don’t see the merit to the “stealing” argument)

> Is it really stealing if they wouldn’t have ever paid for it in the first place? Since when does it matter if I would've paid for it? If someone steals a Mercedes from a dealer is it not stealing if they wouldn't have bought it anyways?

That's stealing because it deprives someone else of their property. The dealer cannot sell the car once you've stolen it.

"Intellectual property" doesn't really work like that.

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#372

Post by dml2135 » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

bin_bash wrote: post #345

californical wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really stealing if they wouldn’t have ever paid for it in the first place? If it’s not easy to find and use on a subscription service that I already have, I’m just not gonna try to search for it or pay for it. What difference would it make if I pirated it and watched it anyways? (FWIW I personally don’t pirate anything, I just really don’t see the merit to the “stealing” argument)

> Is it really stealing if they wouldn’t have ever paid for it in the first place? Since when does it matter if I would've paid for it? If someone steals a Mercedes from a dealer is it not stealing if they wouldn't have bought it anyways?

If you steal a physical object, you deprive someone else of having it. Nothing of the sort happens when you copy a media file.

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#373

Post by TechBro8615 » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #219

halfnormalform wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

That's not how English works. "Stole", "steal", etc., have meanings beyond just illegally depriving someone of physical property. Here are several examples of correct usage of "steal" or "stole" that have nothing to do with illegally taking property. • Someone says they do not like cats and have no interest in having one as a pet. A cute stray kitten shows up on their doorstep, they take pity and feed it. They fall i…

> the kitten "stole" their heart.

> the actor "stole" the show

> A team has... "stolen" the game

These examples are all obviously metaphorical and irrelevant, unless you want to talk about metaphorically stealing from people, which I don't understand to be the point of this thread.

> Mallory "stole" his fiancé

Bob has been deprived of his fiancé.

> the rival company "stole" your secret formula

> crackers gain access... the data was "stolen"

These are the only two relevant examples, and they're sufficiently debatable that it's unlikely you'd be able to prosecute either for theft or larceny. In the case of the crackers breaching an email list, many laws are broken, but I doubt "theft," or anything like it, would be one of them. In the case of the corporate espionage, if this is theft, it's theft of intellectual property. And that makes it the most direct comparison to content piracy, but it doesn't advance the conversation because it's the same debate.

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#374

Post by crazysim » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #323

hardwaregeek wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to phrase this nicely, but this is precisely the type of Hacker News nerd-blindness that I find amazing. It's "easier"? Is it? For young children who want to watch their kids shows and don't know what 4k means? For grandparents who want to see some k-dramas and have no clue about DRM or geo-locked? Sure, Netflix has issues and it's made some bad decisions, but let's not delude ourselves here. The gro…

It's not easier. I've got a BS in EE and am old enough to have downloaded episodes of the TV show 24 over 56k using early BitTorrent. I've successfully set up plex (which requires an in house server/spare pc), sonarr, radarr, usenet, etc. I'm probably the 99% percentile in ability to pirate. And its not easier than netflix. 90% of people I know probably couldn't set this up. And the other 10% would spend more time di…

I think some of those 90% people might pay for major pirated Plex server operations.

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#375

Post by rambambram » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

Stunting wrote: post #291

cercatrova wrote: post #101

It's easier just to pirate than keep up with all these streaming services. - You get the benefit of high quality (true 4k, not stream compressed "4k") and no buffering. - Plex, Radarr, Sonarr automatically downloads and categorizes your content for you, you can just sit back and enjoy your content. - Edit: Plex et al are not the *only* ways to download content, not sure why some replies are thinking so. I too can typ…

You're stealing income, specifically from me and all of my coworkers. Perhaps you think that you're only stealing from Producers and A list actors, but there are entire departments that receive residuals on a production. - On screen performers, stunt performers like myself and actors who grind out a comfortable living. Those residuals also go to qualifying for health insurance through earnings. You are directly steal…

Impressive list of movies! And a very good point you make. NB: Your website loads pretty slow for me (I'm in Europe), and the video on the homepage is unavailable, it says.

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#376

Post by andrew_ » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

Stunting wrote: post #330

gruez wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

technically it's "copyright infringement", not "stealing"

it's very much stealing from the residual based income of the workforce required to make your entertainment.

As mention in a comment above, it is not the consumer's responsibility to provide income to employees of a company providing goods or services. Please stop with this fallacy.

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#377

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

californical wrote: post #314

Stunting wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're stealing income, specifically from me and all of my coworkers. Perhaps you think that you're only stealing from Producers and A list actors, but there are entire departments that receive residuals on a production. - On screen performers, stunt performers like myself and actors who grind out a comfortable living. Those residuals also go to qualifying for health insurance through earnings. You are directly steal…

Is it really stealing if they wouldn’t have ever paid for it in the first place? If it’s not easy to find and use on a subscription service that I already have, I’m just not gonna try to search for it or pay for it. What difference would it make if I pirated it and watched it anyways? (FWIW I personally don’t pirate anything, I just really don’t see the merit to the “stealing” argument)

[deleted]

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#378

Post by dml2135 » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

Stunting wrote: post #344

californical wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really stealing if they wouldn’t have ever paid for it in the first place? If it’s not easy to find and use on a subscription service that I already have, I’m just not gonna try to search for it or pay for it. What difference would it make if I pirated it and watched it anyways? (FWIW I personally don’t pirate anything, I just really don’t see the merit to the “stealing” argument)

Yes it is really stealing. You want something. You don't want to pay for it. You take it without paying. That's stealing. If you really truly didn't want to watch it, you wouldn't steal it.

You don't take it, you make a new, identical copy of it, leaving any previously existing copy intact.

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#379

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

CabSauce wrote: post #181

halfnormalform wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

More like I snuck onto a ride without buying a ticket. Or snuck into a theater without buying a ticket. Wouldn't you call that stealing? Edit: Call it digital trespass then. I don't really care what you call it. There are obviously fixed costs to creating content. Just because there aren't incremental costs incurred from piracy, doesn't mean there isn't harm. Lost revenue is harm.

> "Call it digital trespass then."

The legal term you're looking for is probably "theft of services", e.g. https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-of-services/).

And, to the people trying to play semantic games with "steal" and "theft", theft of services does have laws defining it as a criminal offense, e.g. https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_164.125 .

Re: The bottom is dropping out of Netflix

#380

Post by robonerd » Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #219

halfnormalform wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

That's not how English works. "Stole", "steal", etc., have meanings beyond just illegally depriving someone of physical property. Here are several examples of correct usage of "steal" or "stole" that have nothing to do with illegally taking property. • Someone says they do not like cats and have no interest in having one as a pet. A cute stray kitten shows up on their doorstep, they take pity and feed it. They fall i…

> They might say that the kitten "stole" their heart.

A great moral crime, no doubt...

The problem is once you expand the definition of 'steal' well beyond what is legally considered theft, the immorality of "stealing" is no longer a given. People who accusatorily use the word in reference to copyright violation are leaning on the 'illegal acts of theft' meaning of the term to add apparent moral weight to their argument. But when challenged on that, they retreat into these more diverse meanings of the word and pretend they never meant it that specific way. It's a Motte-and-Bailey tactic.