My small revenge on Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#371

Post by pokot0 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

bmarquez wrote: post #360

pokot0 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want to understand. Apple users are happy that they forced you. They like the AppleID experience and nobody would care to implement it if they didn't force developers. I know it's frustrating for you, but this is the core of why Apple users stick to Apple. They decided to trust and share their data with one single company (Apple) instead of an overwhelming amount of small companies. And it's not just about…

> Apple users are happy that they forced you. They like the AppleID experience and nobody would care to implement it if they didn't force developers. Are there any statistics on this? Apple never asked me if I wanted or liked the AppleID experience. When AppleID came out, I thought it only worked on Apple devices so my use was limited to non-cross platform applications. With developers removing AppleID from Android a…

I don't have any and it's my opinion. It's more a general consideration and AppleID is just one specific instance.

I would still be happy they tried even if something like AppleID would turn out to be a bad idea, provided enough of these efforts turn into something valuable to me.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#372

Post by GZJOHN » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

collaborative wrote: post #272

somehnacct3757 wrote: post #233

I like the angle of "Sorry, Apple ID only works on Apple devices." The rest of the popup seems unprofessional and would make me reconsider using the software, out of fear for what other unprofessional things may end up happening. But the bit I highlight is a nice jab at Apple and something I think you can get away with professionally in a web app. It mars their login brand a bit by showing that it isn't useful everyw…

Thanks, the web app isn't published yet and I will take this into consideration

Take what you see here with a grain of salt; this forum is traditionally filled to the brim with Apple boot lickers. You're fighting the good fight and should be applauded, not chastised for the wording.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#373

Post by clay10 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

csmpltn wrote: post #342

addison-lee wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developer has every right to do what they did just as I have every right to call out their bullshit. Why don’t you fuck off?

> "The developer has every right to do what they did just as I have every right to call out their bullshit. Why don’t you fuck off?" No, you don't get to crap on other people's work simply because you disagree with them.

You do when the developer submits it to a public forum.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#374

Post by haswell » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

collaborative wrote: post #322

haswell wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking an honest question: if Apple didn’t force this, would you really add this voluntarily? Because this response tells me you’re willing to compromise your user’s experience because of your personal issues with Apple. As a user, this does not give me confidence in your decision making. It’s somewhat understandable to be annoyed, even angry at Apple. But the moment you decide to pass that on to your users is the mo…

Honest answer: yes I don't even hold a grudge against Apple. This is just me trying to make the world a better place. It's in everyone's interest that Apple doesn't gain authority to force us to do things (don't forget, devs also are Apple customers)

But what you're telling me is that your opinion about Apple here supersedes my own wishes/wants/goals as an end-user.

This reads like "I know what's best, despite what Apple users say they want, and I'm going to make the world a better place by ignoring my users and telling them what they want is actually bad for them", despite the fact that this is actually a beneficial feature to users, even if it could be construed as a benefit to Apple as well (arguments can certainly be made).

> It's in everyone's interest that Apple doesn't gain authority to force us to do things

The rulebook to participate in this ecosystem is a mile thick. Why is this the issue that you choose to make a fuss over? There are a a myriad of other rules that are even more heavy handed, that actually are to the detriment of end users to protect Apple's walled-garden.

Picking a feature that arguably makes user's lives better seems tone deaf at best, and actively harmful to a broader message about openness at worst.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#375

Post by askafriend » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

csmpltn wrote: post #342

addison-lee wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developer has every right to do what they did just as I have every right to call out their bullshit. Why don’t you fuck off?

> "The developer has every right to do what they did just as I have every right to call out their bullshit. Why don’t you fuck off?" No, you don't get to crap on other people's work simply because you disagree with them.

The app is genuinely ugly and inconsistent though - I don’t think it’s really a matter of opinion. It is what it is - awfully designed.

Not only that, the E2EE that’s advertised is awful - he’s literally using Java’s standard random function. A second year CS student would know not to do that.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#376

Post by ratww » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

collaborative wrote: post #359

spacedcowboy wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Petulance does not become a developer. The last time I saw a tantrum thrown this much was when my kid was 5 and had a major meltdown over a lack of chocolate ice-cream. He didn't get any ice-cream for a week, a response that taught him meltdowns don't work.

You can judge my post as a tantrum, and I won't even take offense, friend Now I ask you this: how far are you willing to go to further a good cause? Watching from the sides feels more comfortable, but we are being decimated and doing nothing won't change a thing. We need to act now, or watch our profession/hobby/passion be used to fatten the already morbidly overweight big tech companies

What is the “good cause” here? You’re just being user hostile and fighting a feature that is highly beneficial for users! If anything, it is Apple that’s fighting a good cause here.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#377

Post by pokot0 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

InsomniacL wrote: post #295

pokot0 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want to understand. Apple users are happy that they forced you. They like the AppleID experience and nobody would care to implement it if they didn't force developers. I know it's frustrating for you, but this is the core of why Apple users stick to Apple. They decided to trust and share their data with one single company (Apple) instead of an overwhelming amount of small companies. And it's not just about…

> Apple users are happy that they forced you. As an Apple user I'm not happy they forced this. It's manipulative forcing even more platform lock-in for the average joe which empowers other anti-trust practices too. You're argument that an Apple user is happy at the point of use doesn't justify anti-trust behaviour which is to the overall detriment of people. Apple seem to get away with far too much just because they'…

I understand your anti-trust point and I agree to some extent.

But this is not something you can blame on Apple. You need to go to your politicians. You can't expect a company to self-regulate its dominance position.

In general I believe a much better way of dealing with this form of dominance is taxing the dominant companies agressively and use that money to fund open source competition.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#378

Post by collaborative » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #356

criddell wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of his users on Apple devices, it isn't abusive at all. It's pro-user and pro-privacy.

Judging by the language used in the post (e.g. "prisoner" or "Give them your money, your will, your worship") it seems like a reasonable assumption that this developer doesn't care about Apple customers.

That's not true, I care about them at a personal level. I would probably have heated discussions about the benevolence of Apple with (some) of them, but it would be in a similar spirit to that of a discussion about football

I keep regular correspondence with many of my iOS users and I consider them to be my friends. They've helped me shape Groups' current form in many ways. I am thankful

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#379

Post by joshstrange » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

csmpltn wrote: post #329

addison-lee wrote: post #296

> look ugly and inconsistent Hate to break it to you, your app is already ugly, the thin black border around the Apple sign in doesn’t change the fact the rest of the app looks awful. Also you’re not getting “revenge” on Apple, you are just fucking over your users who use Apple.

> "Hate to break it to you, your app is already ugly, the thin black border around the Apple sign in doesn’t change the fact the rest of the app looks awful. Also you’re not getting “revenge” on Apple, you are just fucking over your users who use Apple." What's going on with this entire awful thread? A bunch of Apple fanboys crucifying the developer for refusing to play by Apple's rules? The developer has every right…

> What's going on with this entire awful thread? A bunch of Apple fanboys crucifying the developer for refusing to play by Apple's rules?

I mean they are playing by Apple's rules (they support Apple ID on iOS), all they are "refusing" is refusing to allow users to login to their Groups account using Apple ID on a different platform that supports it. That's their prerogative but they aren't sticking to Apple, they are sticking it to their users all while pretending they are standing up to "the man".

> The developer has every right to do what they did, they don't own you or Apple a thing.

This is true, that doesn't mean they are immune from criticism from their decision, especially a decision they took the time to blog about and post to HN.

> Stop acting so entitled and just fuck off.

There is nothing entitled in the comment you are responding to, just facts about what they are doing to their own users.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#380

Post by webmobdev » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

handrous wrote: post #323

webmobdev wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, developers need to respect users too. But that should be between the developers and the user. If a user asks me to add Apple Id as an option in an app I make, that is something that I would seriously consider as I care about my users. Why should a developer care about something no user has requested but Apple is forcing them to use? Apple could be considered a genuine neutral arbitrator if it didn't take money f…

Who forced you to write an iOS app and release it on the App Store? This whole thread is bizarre.

The bizarre thing is the ignorance here that this whole thing is a matter of choice! I am glad that there are developers who recognize that they do not have to accept unfair, and even unethical, practices from corporates. And are willing to speak about it and fight it.

Like minded developers are not just fighting Apple, but the whole attempt by "big tech" to move to the business model of exploiting developers by controlling distribution of softwares, and dictating terms that favour them. This ends up harming both developers, as they earn less, and users, as ultimately it the user who ends up paying the share of profits that Apple (and others) extort from the developers.