Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers • Hacker News Board

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#371

Post by orhmeh09 » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

deepstack wrote: post #312

Elidrake24 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

It really comes down to business model. Apple is a hardware company, they money on things. Google/Alpha is an Ad company, they make money from your data. Of course they can make their code open source, however their practices is going to be targeted towards getting as much user data as possible.

This cliche is a little dated, considering Apple’s revenue from services is considerably higher than that for Mac. There’s a reason it’s no longer Apple Computer. Since when does a hardware company do credit cards? (And, yes, they do make money from your data in this way.)

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#372

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

laurex wrote: post #369

nisegami wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always been a trivial fix here in my opinion - allowing services to charge Google Play and App Store users more. Let users decide how much the safety and convenience of billing through Apple/Google is worth.

There are restrictions to even offering alternate payment methods set by Apple and Google.

More specifically, there are restrictions on advertising or mentioning alternative payment methods, but there can be an alternative payment method outside of the app stores.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#373

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

8note wrote: post #185

meepmorp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is quickly gaining a monopoly on not-shitty hardware By "quickly gaining a monopoly", do you mean they've somehow made it impossible for another multi-billion dollar company to do a decent job on designing and building a phone?

Specifically the building gets quite hard when apple has purchased the chip making capacity

The building gets hard when the executives at Microsoft and Samsung and Intel or Alphabet get complacent with their rent seeking from Windows/Office licensing, or ad revenue, or whatever other reason they can’t stomach investing billions of dollars into R&D and in person retail customer service.

Microsoft really cracks me up, they went as far as opening up retail locations all over the country, they just needed to invest for another 10 years and come up with something that can compete with iOS, and they decided to call it quits after a few years. Presumably because the expenses during the decade that is required to build trust with the public would cause an unacceptable hit to their financials and hence the bosses’ pockets, even though it would have benefited Microsoft after 10 to 15 years.

And now they get to compete with Apple’s own processors for laptops and desktops, for which they are behind another 10 years. Because they choose not to invest in their own employees and R&D, because they already have that sweet Office licensing revenue so why bother.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#374

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

simondotau wrote: post #218

fredophile wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what you mean about customers paying a premium today? I don't think any apps that are on iOS and other platforms charge more for iOS. I also don't believe an iPhone costs more than a similarly high end Android phone. Where's the premium?

Those very few ultra-premium models are exceptions which prove the rule; a few ultra-expensive, ultra-premium halo products for price-insensitive customers. Android phones are almost always superior value for money.

iPhones start at $400, and come with 5+ years of prompt software updates.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#375

Post by Mindwipe » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

dwaite wrote: post #345

echelon wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't have to do business on the App store. Yes, you do. If you want to reach 50% of Americans, you're forced to build and distribute an app on the App Store. Try building Netflix without an iOS app. Try writing a new social media app and not building for iPhone. Pick any modern vertical without an iPhone app. You just can't do it. Apple is the new AOL for a lot of folks. You immediately surrender 30% to reach…

There are competing video services to Netflix which are accessible through the web browser on iOS. Also keep in mind that Netflix does not manage subscriptions through in-app purchases (anymore). Several people (including me) access social media sites through the browser rather than having a native app, in part because of the abuses done by social networks in device profiling in the past. > Apple is the new AOL for a…

> There are competing video services to Netflix which are accessible through the web browser on iOS.

There really aren't, because the HTML5 DRM implementation isn't reliable enough.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#376

Post by lostgame » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #54

Elidrake24 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

I'm not sure why people keep using the 30% number. For businesses that make less than $1mil a year (I am assuming that's most of us who are hobbyist or indie developers here), you literally have to push a button to enable the small business program (it was that easy for me) to reduce it to 15%.

It has been this way since November, and it seems like either nobody noticed, or they seem to still enjoy quoting the 30% number. If you make more than $1mil a year you probably can afford to deal with that. You're also probably putting significantly more bandwidth off Apple's servers than an app that's had 100 downloads.

Unity does a similar thing, but it's free for up to a certain income, pay after that.

I personally would like to see that reduced to 10%, but at least Apple responded to the constant criticism that 30% was ludicrous.

From Apple:

• Existing developers who made up to $1 million in 2020 for all of their apps, as well as developers new to the App Store, can qualify for the program and the reduced (15%) commission.

• If a participating developer surpasses the $1 million threshold, the standard commission rate will apply for the remainder of the year.

• If a developer’s business falls below the $1 million threshold in a future calendar year, they can requalify for the 15 percent commission the year after.

Source: https://www.apple.com/ca/newsroom/2020/11/apple-announces-ap...

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#377

Post by amelius » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

Redoubts wrote: post #358

amelius wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. You and Apple are conflating "App Store" and "Content Filter". We can have multiple App Stores and multiple types of content filters. It doesn't need to be like the current situation, with Apple in full control over everything.

50 years of worse-is-better ruling the software world suggests otherwise.

Some people prefer the safety of Disney World.

Others like to go base jumping from some mountain in the Alps.

Shouldn't both be possible? Or do we want a Mickey Mouse in the Alps telling us to go back for our own safety?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#378

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #377

Redoubts wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50 years of worse-is-better ruling the software world suggests otherwise.

Some people prefer the safety of Disney World. Others like to go base jumping from some mountain in the Alps. Shouldn't both be possible? Or do we want a Mickey Mouse in the Alps telling us to go back for our own safety?

It is hardly impossible to install third-party software on your phone if you're up for base jump levels of risk.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#379

Post by Redoubts » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #377

Redoubts wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50 years of worse-is-better ruling the software world suggests otherwise.

Some people prefer the safety of Disney World. Others like to go base jumping from some mountain in the Alps. Shouldn't both be possible? Or do we want a Mickey Mouse in the Alps telling us to go back for our own safety?

Yeah, but that’s what Android is for. I have absolutely no faith that developers won’t pick the easiest, cheapest, least restrictive distribution channel available. And I have every inclination they will sacrifice every user desire for privacy and integrity to get there.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#380

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

shawnz wrote: post #229

gonehome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

Their choices have been a net benefit for you so far, but what if in future they implement restrictions that you don't like? It would be difficult to change platforms over it.

It's actually quite easy to change platforms (at least in part because so many cross-platform apps will store your settings in the cloud anyway). My wife and I did it last year and it was not much fuss.