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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#371

Post by pkaye »

shagie wrote: post #301
tosser0001 wrote: post #72

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

I've often linked this in /r/cscareerquestions as advice to students: http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018... {quote} But I had enjoyed working on the hard projects I'd encountered in my programing class back in high school. They were challenges I wanted to overcome. I changed my major and dove into college CS courses, which were full of hard problems -- but hard problems that I wanted to solv…

Its just that right now programming jobs pay well. Not all passions line up with job that earns enough.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#372

Post by karmakaze »

What do people here consider to be CS? I couldn't really tell from the article. As I recall, CS was in the math faculty and dealt with theory and core principles or developments, stuff you typically read in whitepapers.

Regular programming/software programmes were in the engineering faculty, as well as some software development being covered to some extent in all the eng programmes. I also recall CS + computer eng made up a large fraction, about as much as all the other math depts and more than physics + biology combined.

The title suggests that there aught to be more and I'd agree that grads going into computer science fields should be better prepared but I don't think that has to be via a CS degree.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#373

Post by zanmat0 »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #328
_visgean wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of confrontation could that be? "Oh but come on! I am important!" or "But I have moderately high salary!"? I think OP did the smart decision.

I would have started by asking what position she was looking for, and if she started all the way at the top like CEO, I’d whittle it down by starting with “don’t you think encouraging your entire class to aim only for the top, that you’ll be setting lots of them up for failure?” And if she didn’t relent, follow it up with “people who are on a CEO track need to know what life is like for those who build their products…

Its easy to come up with that after having thought it over for 30 seconds but on the spot, when what the person just told you comes as a shock, you're unlikely to muster up such a response.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#374

Post by honkycat »

treeman79 wrote: post #354
honkycat wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. Bill Gate and Mark Zuckerberg both grew up fantastically wealthy. Their decision making process should be different than the average person. Gate's parents had friends in high places, went to high quality schools, and he was a trust fund kid. He was in no danger of failing and didn't need to worry about money. He could always just go back. Zuckerberg had a private tutor. They had basically already had a college…

It was a very common opinion amongst the startup crowd at that time. Now I would hear stories about MIT, and be impressed, but many schools had very out dated programs. Breadboards were cool, but I wanted to learn software. Assembly was neat, made me a better programmer. I’ve Never once used it. Whole series of interesting but not practical skills. I ended up running school newspaper. That was super useful for gettin…

That's a good perspective actually. I myself have been critical of University computer science programs for not teaching practical skills.

I always forget because I went to DePaul University which focus is on practical software development as opposed to making me take organic chem for no apparent reason.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#375

Post by burntoutfire »

smabie wrote: post #368
Pfhreak wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of contractors who improve their own homes in their spare time, artists who paint in their spare time, writers with side projects, teachers who do planning/look for lessons, etc. etc. That said, I think we'd all be better off if engineers demanded collectively not to work more than 40 hours. (Tech unions/guilds could be formed and focused just on stuff like limiting hours/paying for overtime and oncall,…

In general, the less hours everyone works, the greater the advantage you have in working more. By just working 10 extra hours, I can be 25% more productive (there's a lot of simplying assumptions there, of course). This is why the 4 day work week never took off: I can just work one more day and realize a 25% boost in output, a major boon to my career. Developers don't have much in common with the workers who original…

> I find that over the long term, over 60 hours per week leaves me feeling a little shitty and depressed

We must have different bodies. 40 hours a week is plenty to do that for me (and I don't really work nearly enough 40 hours during the supposed 9-5). At the end of a typical workday (mostly coding), I experience quite thorough mental depletion. It is very unpleasant and makes the remaining hours of the day mostly a pointless and sucky experience, as I don't have the will to do anything (although sometimes I do recover after an evening of 3-4 hours of doing nothing and get a little energy back - however it's bedtime then).

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#376

Post by [deleted] »

battertenr wrote: post #47

The reason is because it is a terrible job. Unlikely 90% of other jobs, you have to mentally burn your brain out each day, constantly learn new things, and focus intensely, supposedly for 8 hours. The reward is nothing, not even good pay outside of a couple of tech giants in the USA. If you compare it to a trade, there is a night and day difference to your mental health. The wage data in this article is meaningless b…

[deleted]

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#377

Post by UncleMeat »

thu2111 wrote: post #342
thelopa wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rowling is well known but is currently having her reputation blown up and being stabbed in the back by the starlets she birthed, because she's not on board with "people can pick their own gender at will". Wow. So much to unpack here. I’m getting the impression that you sympathize with Rowling’s views. I’m a little more immersed in trans issues than most on HN, so let me assure you that Rowling is flat out wrong. Fo…

I don't take a position on Rowling's views one way or another, as I haven't really investigated them. I believe the quote is a reasonably accurate summary of her position but it's based on second hand accounts I've read in the press; can well believe it's somewhat garbled. My understanding is the argument is about whether people can pick a new gender without any biological changes/surgery, but who knows, maybe she's…

> I believe the quote is a reasonably accurate summary of her position but it's based on second hand accounts I've read in the press

It isn't. At all. It is word for word what I'd expect from a malicious misrepresentation of what transgender activists believe and want to achieve. You may not be malicious here, but you are repeating phraseology that has been planted in the public consciousness by those who are.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#378

Post by jcranmer »

burntoutfire wrote: post #314
radford-neal wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean to imply that the "nerds", or any of the students, were "toxic". It's the culture. Probably starting with the whole concept of segregating teenagers from the rest of society.

Interestingly, there was almost no bullying in my high school in Poland in the nineties. I think school bullying may be a product of Anglo-Saxxon culture, which is very individualistic, success oriented (i.e. if you're a "loser" you're barely a human being) and also kind of heartless. Currently, as Poland converges to the standard of global culture emanating from the US, there are reports of some cases of bullying, b…

> I think school bullying may be a product of Anglo-Saxxon culture, which is very individualistic, success oriented (i.e. if you're a "loser" you're barely a human being) and also kind of heartless.

That is rather refuted by the rather notorious bullying in Japan, which is about as far away from individualistic culture as you can get.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#379

Post by orthoxerox »

burntoutfire wrote: post #314
radford-neal wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean to imply that the "nerds", or any of the students, were "toxic". It's the culture. Probably starting with the whole concept of segregating teenagers from the rest of society.

Interestingly, there was almost no bullying in my high school in Poland in the nineties. I think school bullying may be a product of Anglo-Saxxon culture, which is very individualistic, success oriented (i.e. if you're a "loser" you're barely a human being) and also kind of heartless. Currently, as Poland converges to the standard of global culture emanating from the US, there are reports of some cases of bullying, b…

There was plenty of bullying in my middle school in Russia in the nineties. Hell, there's a 1983 Soviet movie about bullying.

Any kid that was weird and had no "redeeming" qualities (strength or wealth) was likely to be bullied. Don't tell me your class was one big happy family and that you didn't have that one kid that no one cared about.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#380

Post by benhurmarcel »

screye wrote: post #311

Can we talk about how much more CS people are expected to work than people in other fields ? For most people here, CS is their hobby. So a lot of learning and knowledge acquisition happens during 'leisure' time. This is rarely the case in other professions. If we count all the time we spend resolving environments, getting setups right, learning new tools and reading papers as work (as we rightly should), then most pe…

CS people are also paid much more than people in other fields.
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