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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

danwang.co

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#301

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

I've often linked this in /r/cscareerquestions as advice to students: http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018...

{quote}

But I had enjoyed working on the hard projects I'd encountered in my programing class back in high school. They were challenges I wanted to overcome. I changed my major and dove into college CS courses, which were full of hard problems -- but hard problems that I wanted to solve. I didn't mind being frustrated for an entire semester one year, working in assembly language and JCL, because I wanted to solve the puzzles.

Maybe this is what people mean when they tell us to "find our passion", but that phrase seems pretty abstract to me. Maybe instead we should encourage people to find the hard problems they like to work on. Which problems do you want to keep working on, even when they turn out to be harder than you expected? Which kinds of frustration do you enjoy, or at least are willing to endure while you figure things out? Answers to these very practical questions might help you find a place where you can build an interesting and rewarding life.

I realize that "Find your passion" makes for a more compelling motivational poster than "What hard problems do you enjoy working on?" (and even that's a lot better than "What kind of pain are you willing to endure?"), but it might give some people a more realistic way to approach finding their life's work.

{/quote}

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#302

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

An an aside: I would say debugging is one of my favourite bits of programming!

Agreed. It's a little mystery that I get to dig into and investigate. Certainly sometimes the issue is just frustrating and tedious, but often it's illuminating. And it's gratifying to get to the bottom of it. To go from the initial phase of "what the hell is going on here" and arrive at some understanding.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#303
post #161

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

This I've been working has a web developer for two years after completing a bootcamp. Peoples often ask me questions because they think about doing the same. I always say to them that this is not for everbody, you are banging your head against the wall most of the time. Off course nothing beat that sensation when you finally found the problem or even when you get closer. But that has to be your thing.

> I always say to them that this is not for everbody, you are banging your head against the wall most of the time

This is what I tell people who want to get into bench science. It's funny, because I find programming to be an escape from the 'head-banging' of science. At least when I get stuck debugging a programming issue, I know that there is a fix, and I'll eventually find it. Compare that to science, where you might bang your head against the wall for weeks, months, or years, only to later find out that the problem simply isn't tractable, or that the problem had nothing to do with you at all.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#304
post #161

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

This I've been working has a web developer for two years after completing a bootcamp. Peoples often ask me questions because they think about doing the same. I always say to them that this is not for everbody, you are banging your head against the wall most of the time. Off course nothing beat that sensation when you finally found the problem or even when you get closer. But that has to be your thing.

Consider this in addition. How many are beating their heads off a wall, and then solve it. Perhaps they are happy they figured it out. But then they remember this is for a piece of garbage ad-tech app, or part of a google project that'll go in the garbage in 2 years, or something to steal even more private information from end users, or it's another CRUD web app...

All the while they're being sold on how they're "changing the world..." or "innovating."

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#305
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be assuming that your experience is universal.

Why? I'm assuming that my experience is common, which it is. That's more than enough to disprove the idea "I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to pass a CS degree". Everyone is that good, because there is no minimum essay-skill requirement to pass a CS degree. Are you thinking that the only CS degree you could conceivably otherwise have passed also had a strict essay requirement?

What style of CS exams were the ones that you took, multiple choice ?

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#306
post #51

There's one other possible, additional reason. I recently asked a 17-year-old high school senior who is heading to college what she's planning to study, and she said it would be mathematics, biomedical engineering, or some other kind of engineering. She's self-motivated -- says she will be studying multi-variate calculus, PDEs, and abstract algebra on her own this summer. She maxed out her high school math curriculum…

To be honest, I fell into that when I studied computer science in college. I just realized I couldn't sit in front of a screen for 7-8 hrs a day without many breaks. I decided to go into medicine mid way through. That being said, I'm realizing now that doctors spend a ton of time in front of a screen as well..as are many professions now a days.

Literally everyone spends huge portions of their days on their phones/tablets/laptops/tvs.

What they're really saying is: Programming is boring.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#307
post #240

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

You have to be a little crazy to want to spend your life trying to get these damned things to work.

You don’t have to be crazy to be great at programming, but it helps.

My own anecdata suggests that best programmers are the craziest ones. But that’s also true for just about every other field that requires extensive self discipline to master.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#308

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

That's the odd thing about it. I literally got paid (quite well) to do things that I happily do for free in my spare time anyway.

You have to pay me to work on your problems, but there's a big part of me that would happily do it for free.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#309

A few observations I have seen(US Based): - In college there were basically no women in any of my classes, like 1 or 2 in a class of 30-40. Not having an entire gender being interested in a field(generally speaking) makes numbers overall very low. - In a Java class I took in college, it was standing room only for the first two sessions, after 3 weeks the class was 70% reduced, by the end of the class it was about 25%…

> - In a Java class I took in college, it was standing room only for the first two sessions, after 3 weeks the class was 70% reduced, by the end of the class it was about 25% of its original size. CS is hard, lets be honest(for most people), to excel you have to love it or be mathematically inclined.

Yes CS is hard. But arguably so are Maths, Physics, Psychology, Medicine, Law, Engineering, etc. I wonder what the drop out rates are for those are. And more importantly they seem to be popular in terms of the numbers of people that want to pursue those courses.

> - Most engineers don't have much 'clout' in a organization that isn't a pure tech company, I have been solicited by GS and other hedge funds but always pass as I know I will always be 2nd fiddle to finance folks/business majors.

I think you're right about this. Although you get some clout as a Quant developer in those types of places

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#310
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General Nakasone is a lifelong intelligence officer with degrees in the field of intelligence, and he’s been in the intelligence and cyber warfare fields for decades. He’s not a computer scientist, but he’s also not an English teacher they just stuck in charge because he has a star. He’s highly qualified for that job, as are most people who have been assigned there. NSA does a lot of things that are not computer scie…

> He’s highly qualified for that job He is, yes. And one of his essential qualifications needed for the job is being respected by the establishment because he's come through the establishment institutions and a profession respected by society with a combat action badge, rather than a technical contributor, which society does not respect.

One of those essential qualifications is being technically competent, which he clearly is.

Having a CAB is not one of those qualifications, most NSA directors have not had one or had any combat experience.

Just as most CEOs are hired for their business expertise, not only their technical abilities.

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