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Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#371

Post by Aeolun »

ekianjo wrote: post #345
adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

Man sorry to say but all your comments are completely wrong. - Social distancing does not exist in large cities like osaka and Tokyo. And that's a lot of people. Try to take a train at any time of the days and see if you can keep more than 10cm apart from anyone else. Good luck. - Masks: there's no masks sold anywhere as we speak. And that's been a month already. - Washing hands: more common than in other countries m…

> I can see parents and kids going together to play in parks with no care whatsoever.

I don’t know if they have no care. They’ve just weighed the horror of staying in their home with a kid for days on end against their chances of getting infected and chosen what makes sense for them.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#372

Post by Aeolun »

product50 wrote: post #123
adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

Do you know these are the real reasons or are you just rehashing what you have read? This feels more like confirmation bias. Can't imagine the rest of first world countries are completely shut down and here Japan is just doing fine with 1000s of ppl picnicking etc. There has to be something else going on..

Well, we won’t know whether the picnicking was fine until about 2 weeks hence. I hope it was indeed fine, but I’m doubtful.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#373

Post by Aeolun »

bamboozled wrote: post #253
chrischen wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- People do shake hands in Japan. In Western countries hand-shaking is limited almost exclusively to business (I’d imagine the same goes for Japan). - Washing hands is common, but not necessarily any more of a practice than in Western countries. But in many places like in subway station bathrooms they do not have soap. Some of the cultural things like mask wearing (which was born out of the density and close proximit…

Hot tip, if you’re in Japan and don’t want to shake hands right now. Bow first. I find people of Japan will shake hands to make you feel welcome if you don’t bow. I just had a young doctor in a hospital shake my hand, I would say out if the important cultural need to be polite and pay respect to someone older. I don’t care or blame him even though I was surprised. On a side note, I would say upwards of 75% of people…

> On a side note, I would say upwards of 75% of people in Tokyo are wearing masks

I’d say more like 50%, but I think it used to be more, so now I wonder if everyone simply ran out...

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#374

Post by toprea »

adventured wrote: post #216
adev_ wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you know these are the real reasons? I don't pretend to know, that's my personal thoughts, I think they are. I am rather often in Japan for family reasons. > Can't imagine the rest of first world countries are completely shut down and here Japan is just doing fine with 1000s of ppl picnicking etc. I personally think one of the main reason is currently the exposition (or non-exposition) of the elders. They account…

> They [elders] account for over 95% of the victims. Half the most severe cases in France are under 60 years of age. It begs the question of why Japan is also not seeing anything like that. Deaths are certainly one thing to consider in terms of age, however if Japan had a mass spread of the virus I would expect to see a lot of ICU cases regardless. Even when countries aren't testing properly, the intensive care cases…

In Germany's case the main explanation from lead virologists is that they are testing much more and were lucky to catch it early. Germany had from the beginning a capacity of about 100k tests per week. Now they are increasing that.

So in conclusion, for Germany the number of infections is a bit closer to reality, where in Italy and Spain that number is/was much more far off.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#375

Post by Aeolun »

hatenberg wrote: post #347
adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

If you've ever been in a mens bathroom in Japan ... washing hands doesnt happen, let alone with soap

It’s just a little token splash of water.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#376

Post by Aeolun »

barry-cotter wrote: post #217
maps7 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. We're told that masks do not work

Indeed. Here’s the US Surgeon General spreading disinformation on Twitter. > Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! >?They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...

When I read that I was suddenly wondering if maybe they were appointed by Trump due to similar communication style.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#377

Post by l_davis »

lovemenot wrote: post #366
l_davis wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I understand the point behind that post. Many Japanese believe that they are special and superior and love to sell that to non Japanese. It can be really annoying, and it isn't true that as a nationality they are somehow inherently superior.

If you can, get over your feelings. I do not believe Japanese are superior. Nor do I believe that most Japanese people think that way. On the contrary. YMMV though. This thread isn't about that anyway. We are just trying to understand what, if anything, has worked so far in one country and what is not working elsewhere.

I said many, not most.

I watch NHK World regularly. One of their programs, Japangle, ends every episode with the catchphrase "It means that Japanese people are so special." A datapoint to show why I made my statement.

And, speaking of what works in one country as opposed to others, I started watching Japanese news instead of American news years ago because of the calm delivery. I do read news from many other sources, but I don't listen to other TV news programs. My two cents on that is that American news goes for getting people emotional, and hearing it affects the ability to think rationally. Taking this pandemic seriously but not getting worked up enough that one loses the ability to be rational is something that would benefit us all.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#378

Post by lovemenot »

ashleysmithgpu wrote: post #325
adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

I live in Japan. "Washing hands is common" this is incorrect. Most bathrooms do not have soap and many people do not wash their hands. "People listen and obey to their government" This is also not true, many hanami events have been cancelled but there were actually more people out viewing yesterday than last year. I am relatively sure the turnout will be higher than last year to many of the parks.

>> there were actually more people out viewing yesterday than last year.

Incorrect from my close observation of three Tokyo hanami locations with which I have become familiar over a long period.

The density of picnickers has been lower than I have observed over previous years. Furthermore, the respect for mutual distance through eye contact has been new and noticeable.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#379

Post by Aeolun »

bruxis wrote: post #5

> New tests that produce produce results in 10-15 minutes are becoming available, but even with the improved tech, under the current policy a test will only be administered in the most extreme circumstances, when people have had a fever for four days or more . This is an important factor that may indicate this "outlier" is more of a delay, rather than a reality of some exception. As a resident, I'm quite concerned ab…

I don’t think having a fever for 4 days or more is unreasonable? If you have other symptoms of COVID maybe it makes sense to get tested, but a normal flu also causes a fever and is much more likely.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#380

Post by Aeolun »

graeme wrote: post #92
vasilipupkin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree, we will know in a month, but even if govt is lying about cases, we should be seeing a deluge of patients in the ICUs and rise in deaths and we aren't seeing that

How would you know they haven’t? If you don’t test a death for the virus, the death doesn’t show up in virus death counts. And if you aren’t in a hospitals, the deaths wouldn’t show yet. At some point it would become too big to ignore. But is Japan there yet? This is definitely a space to watch over the next 2-3 weeks.

Given where they could have been if they’d followed the same trajectory as Italy, I’d say the strain should be visible if it was there.
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