Hmm, could they be lying to keep the Olympics? If so, how would they get away with it?
(Not accusing, just repeating something a Japanese friend said.)
Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
211–220 of 430 posts
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#212Japan's obesity rate is only 3.6% while the US's is 32%, and Italy's 42%.
https://ageconsearch.umn.edu/record/14321?ln=en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Italy
This suggests many consequent differences, like far fewer seniors taking all of the drugs that accompany obesity, like ACE and ARB inhibitors for hypertension, and the myriad drugs that combat diabetes.
But ignoring the contribution of specific drugs, it's much more likely that fitness and the absence of comorbidity diseases are the principal factors that favor countries with significantly better basic fitness like Japan (and Taiwan and South Korea) and their reporting fewer cases.
What's more, since most positive cases will never be counted unless they need hospitalization, we may simply be seeing healthier immune systems reduce case severity, so more cases in these countries are flying below the radar.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#213The Japanese smoke more, but see less lung cancer. If we can figure out why, it might cast light on the covid19 pandemic. https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-japanese-lung-cancer-smok...
Maybe check how many smokes they usually do. I know some people in western countries will smoke a pack a day.
In western countries, a pack a day used to be considered moderate. Some people still smoke a ton more than that, chainsmoking every hour they're awake, but it's not as common as it used to be.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#214Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…
Taiwan had a much more comprehensive and thorough strategy, considering their threat was much higher due to close economic ties and travel with China.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#215I'm also thinking of the "biological resistance" angle. Japan is known to have extremely low rates of common comorbidity factors: cardiovascular conditions, obesity, etc. By very significant margins, consider dividing the prevalence of these conditions by 2 to 10 compared to the West. Add to that a generally balanced nutrition, due to a culinary culture quite aligned with those goals (whether by chance or by design,…
Probably more likely they are just ignoring it.
In 2018 influenza killed around 61,000 people (46000-95000 95%UI) in the USA. Estimated 45,000,000 people got sick. 21,000,000 people made hospital visits with around 810,000 people hospitalized.
So it didn't fling the USA into a recession. Business continued as normal.
For Italy you had 7,027 deaths for the '13-'14 flu season, 20,259 '14-'15, 15,801 '15-'16, and 24,981 '16-'17.
So why does ~25,000 deaths one year goes practically unnoticed, yet less then 5,000 deaths send the economy into a death spiral and the government to essentially strip all rights from the population?
It's not like if people just continued with business as usual the death toll would be unusually high. I fully understand why you want to slow the spread of the disease... but if ultimately if 70-90 thousand people die in the USA and 30-40 thousand people die in Italy.. it wouldn't even be that unusual or extreme. It would just be a slightly higher then average people die from just run of the mill every year seasonal disease.
It's the same reason why although terrorism killed 25 people in the USA in 2019 and was all over the news and people freaked out, and caused panic attacks, and calls for legislation and.. so on and so forth. Yet bee/hornet attacks killed around 60-90 people in the same time period and nobody, except close family members and friends of the victims, gave two shits.
It's the novelty, strangeness, and uncertainty that causes a massive reaction. And it is the response that is causing damage to the economies, society, and destroying people's lives. Not the disease. Not yet. Maybe it will, but that is far from certain.
In other words...
The reason it's not a big deal in Japan has nothing to do with how many people get sick or die or inherent vulnerability to the sickness. The median age of a person in the USA is 38. The Median age of a person in Japan is 46. This is a massively older population and there is a limit to how much a healthy lifestyle really makes in fighting disease.
The real reason it's not a big deal in Japan is because they choose to not make it a big deal.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you know these are the real reasons or are you just rehashing what you have read? This feels more like confirmation bias. Can't imagine the rest of first world countries are completely shut down and here Japan is just doing fine with 1000s of ppl picnicking etc. There has to be something else going on..
>Do you know these are the real reasons? I don't pretend to know, that's my personal thoughts, I think they are. I am rather often in Japan for family reasons. > Can't imagine the rest of first world countries are completely shut down and here Japan is just doing fine with 1000s of ppl picnicking etc. I personally think one of the main reason is currently the exposition (or non-exposition) of the elders. They account…
> They [elders] account for over 95% of the victims.
Half the most severe cases in France are under 60 years of age. It begs the question of why Japan is also not seeing anything like that.
Deaths are certainly one thing to consider in terms of age, however if Japan had a mass spread of the virus I would expect to see a lot of ICU cases regardless. Even when countries aren't testing properly, the intensive care cases (or lack thereof) reveal what's going on eventually. I think it goes beyond the isolation of old people for Japan.
It's similarly puzzling as the German case to death ratio, versus eg Spain (comparable case counts, 15 times the deaths). I've seen that one explained that older people in Germany are far less likely to live with their families vs Spain or Italy (so fewer of the most vulnerable are catching it in Germany). And yet, Germany also has three times the cases of Switzerland, with the same number of deaths. Something is very strange there. The low recovery figures out of Germany might imply they're not deep enough into the outbreak, time wise, to have the death rate spiking yet.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#217Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…
- Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. We're told that masks do not work
Indeed. Here’s the US Surgeon General spreading disinformation on Twitter.
> Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!
>?They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm
https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#218Japan's obesity rate is only 3.6% while the US's is 32%, and Italy's 42%. https://ageconsearch.umn.edu/record/14321?ln=en https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Italy This suggests many consequent differences, like far fewer seniors taking all of the drugs that accompany obesity, like ACE and ARB inhibitors for hypertension, and the myriad drugs that combat diabetes. But ignoring the contribution of specific drugs,…
Italy's obesity rate is not 42%. That's the rate for 2 year olds, which is bad in and if itself. The obesity rate overall is about 10% though, which is amongst the lowest in oecd counties.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, we're not wearing masks because we don't HAVE any . I live in Brooklyn and I'd love to wear a mask. I'd love to have been wearing a mask every day for the past two weeks. But where exactly do you suggest I find one since they're sold out literally everywhere , and we're also getting advice not to wear them so they can be saved for healthcare professionals! You ought to reexamine your assumptions. We love masks bu…
Wear a scarf. The OP didn't say criticize people for not wearing mask-alternatives in a time of a shortage, they critized people for not wearing anything. DIY masks may not be as effective, but they still help (some top HN post claimed 70%-80%). This isn't a situation where if you can't do something perfectly you might as well not try. This is a situation that calls for doing anything within reasonable measures (don'…
Scarves are about the least effective makeshift masks, catching less than 50% of virus sized particles. A tea towel/dish cloth catches over 70% and a vacuum cleaner bag is over 80%, almost as good as a surgical mask.
> Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#220Japan's obesity rate is only 3.6% while the US's is 32%, and Italy's 42%. https://ageconsearch.umn.edu/record/14321?ln=en https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Italy This suggests many consequent differences, like far fewer seniors taking all of the drugs that accompany obesity, like ACE and ARB inhibitors for hypertension, and the myriad drugs that combat diabetes. But ignoring the contribution of specific drugs,…
That wikipedia article makes no sense at all.
Here's a good resource
https://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/obesityandtheeconomi...
One out of 10 italians is obese. The 42% you're referring to is the data for children.