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Why Child Care Is So Expensive

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Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#371

Post by sweeneyrod »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #244
telesilla wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just an economic advantage either, but for the mental health of the mother, it's very rare to meet a woman who only desires to stay at home for the duration of a child's life.

>it's very rare to meet a woman who only desires to stay at home for the duration of a child's life I assume you mean until the child goes to school or perhaps becomes an adult, and in my experience it's not rare to meet women like that. It certainly was not rare in previous generations, so to the extent that it is rare today, it's due to cultural changes. If women's mental health is suffering because certain element…

I'm pretty sure your last statement is also true for men, quite possibly to a greater extent (since men more commonly focus on their careers to the exclusion of their children).

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#372

Post by giggles_giggles »

logjammin wrote: post #365
giggles_giggles wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird comment that, in my experience, doesn't represent the reality of today's stay-at-home parents. I'd love to see hard data on this, but let me share my anecdotes in response to the middle paragraph here. My older sister has been a stay at home mother for almost a decade, so I'll share my observations from being an uncle: > It is normal for children to be cared for by many adults throughout the day, from…

Not sure why this is greyed out, but I appreciated your comment. Is Forest School a thing beyond where you live, do you know?

I believe it is and in fact I think I read an article here on HN not too long ago that talked about it. There seems to be an associated organization:

https://www.forestschoolassociation.org/what-is-forest-schoo...

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#373

Post by awad »

bradlys wrote: post #363
mjh2539 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are you going to do about it? Have lots of kids and encourage them not to move so that there is a large support structure in place foe their children and their children's children.

Unless you have riches beyond imagination - this is not feasible in a modern economy... My SO is a prime example of this. She grew up in the bay area but she herself could never afford a home here cause homes be $2m now. Her parents never bought a home - so she will never inherit a fortune either. Even if they did - she wouldn't inherit it until they were dead (and thus unable to help take care of the children). So,…

It's not very popular in the US but multi-generational housing has existed for thousands of years in other parts of the world and solves for this, even while renting.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#374

Post by lutorm »

ip26 wrote: post #360
klipt wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is subsidized daycare necessary in these cases though? In America if daycare costs X and you earn Y much greater than X, then obviously you'll make more money going to work and sending your kid to daycare than being a stay at home parent. The people who choose to stay at home often either have multiple kids (higher X) or earn little enough (lower Y) that it's not an economic advantage for them to work. But those…

Taxes are one reason. You have to earn Y where Y >= X * 125% (vaguely speaking) just to break even. If your first thought is something like, maybe we shouldn't tax X spent on daycare- well, that's a subsidy.

In fact, we don't (at least the first $5k, if you have access to a DCRA through your employer.)

Why you need to have access to a DCRA and can't simply deduct child care expenses, I have no idea. It's like with an FSA, it seems someone wants to provide a benefit but is purposefully making it harder to use...

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#375

Post by lutorm »

tharne wrote: post #339
com2kid wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agreed. There are very few things in life as important as raising one's children well. To say that we should incentivize or otherwise coerce people into outsourcing the upbringing of their own children so they can punch a time-clock is beyond misguided. This same statement can be applied to healthcare (our family's health is one of the most important things we have, why do we outsource it to doctors?) and cooking (…

Comparing raising children to receiving healthcare is absurd. Raising children is an instinct that's hardwired in each of us. Administering healthcare as we do today is a modern technical skill specific to a particular time and place. Regarding your last comment about people not having kids because it's too expensive, while that may be a popular thing to say it's 100% false. As individuals and societies become wealth…

Raising children is an instinct that's hardwired in each of us.

Maybe, but raising children well certainly isn't...

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#376

Post by bonoboTP »

makomk wrote: post #336
orev wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re being overly picky and cherry-picking your argument here. I don’t know anyone who thinks that child rearing is not hard work, and all agree that it is valuable. But in the context of this discussion, “productivity” is an economic term for the production of goods or services, and the generation of income for the workers. Child rearing does neither of those things directly , so as an economic activity, i…

It's funny you should mention GDP, because childcare is one of the iconic well-known examples of why it can be a misleading measure. If person A is paid to care for person B's kids whilst they work, that results in higher GDP than if person B cares for their own kids and person A takes the job instead, even though exactly the same amount is being done, because caring for those kids is no longer a service that counts…

Isn't that a much more general argument? Anytime I do some garden work myself, fix some appliance myself, clean my house, buy groceries, cook my own dinner, do my taxes alone, drive my car myself, etc, I'm not increasing the GDP, but I would be if I paid for the respective service.

Also note how in your first scenario both people earn money, in the second scenario only A does (ending up with more than what B had in scenario 1).

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#377

Post by tathougies »

Konnstann wrote: post #135
tathougies wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially since some people don't like kids. Well those people can be shunted off into some sad depressing part of the building? Or work from home. Remote work is great, but it's also very nice and social to bring babies in to the office to meet your friends. What's so wrong with that?

The majority of my office is BL2 Lab space, people who bring their kids in are being incredibly irresponsible. The other aspect is a lot of people who would benefit from workplace daycare don't work in white-collar office spaces. Finally segregating people who don't enjoy distractions at work seems very rude, I like kids but I am overly cautious around them, if someone brought their kid into work I'd be more focused…

Most people do not work in BL2 lab space. Most office people have desk jobs, where they sit at a desk and type all day.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#378

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #148
josinalvo wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific? What is the nature of this toil?

I've got two kids: 15 month old boy, 7 year old girl. With the boy, the toil is literally keeping him from killing himself. If you put him downstairs, he'll try to climb up the stairs. He'll climb on the couch and fall off the other side. He'll drop things in the toilet. He'll try to pull stuff off shelves. He'll climb up the chair onto the dining room table. He is not content to sit and eat. I gave him cornbread yes…

You should give up on the vegetable thing, by the way. Just don't let your kids drink lots of liquid calories and don't feed them hyperpalatable packaged food and they'll be fine. My kids both eat better than anyone I knew at their age, myself very much included --- they're 20 and 18 now --- and they came to it naturally (or by getting bored at the options they had if they were picky).

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#379

Post by greggman2 »

abbadadda wrote: post #243

A lot of really good discussion in this article. I just wanted to add a couple of things: It is a true blessing if a mother or father can stay at home to raise their children. However, over time being a stay at home parent is incredibly isolating. Men are suseptible to depression, but women especially so post-partum. Also, many parents do eventually want to work either part time or full time. The longer one stays out…

my sister solved this joining her local moms club. No idea what support exists for dads

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#380

Post by tptacek »

novok wrote: post #277
rayiner wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got two kids: 15 month old boy, 7 year old girl. With the boy, the toil is literally keeping him from killing himself. If you put him downstairs, he'll try to climb up the stairs. He'll climb on the couch and fall off the other side. He'll drop things in the toilet. He'll try to pull stuff off shelves. He'll climb up the chair onto the dining room table. He is not content to sit and eat. I gave him cornbread yes…

I feel like a lot of this labor is generated by the fact that most kids in america can't go run out and play with other kids in the neighbourhood anymore. Your 7 year old would not be asking for you to endlessly watch her cartwheel and interact with her out of bordem. They would be out playing 24/7 in the local forest, come back for food and boo-boos, be back before dark and be in bed a couple of hours after dinner /…

Virtually none of the labor Rayiner is describing is a consequence of his kids not being able to go out and play. As he related, and as anyone who's parented a 15-month-old knows in their bones, keeping them from killing themselves or destroying the house is indeed a full-time job.
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