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Why Child Care Is So Expensive

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Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#361

Post by jimbokun »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #198
bdamm wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happened some time ago. In fact, one of the issues with so many women in the workforce is that in the 50's that same class of women were providing community networking functions, allowing for local problem solving and support that is somewhat extinct now. Frankly I am unsold on the benefit to society of women in the workforce. Did we gain women's freedom at the cost of strong and good families? It's a taboo, now…

That's a hot take you've got there, and probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, but I'm curious about some of these points: > community networking functions, allowing for local problem solving and support that is somewhat extinct now What are you referring to in particular? Community booster orgs? The PTA? > Did we gain women's freedom at the cost of strong and good families? Were families really that better off…

> I think back to the 50's and all I see is things like alcoholism, racism, parochialism, and insularity.

Good thing none of those exist any more!

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#362

Post by vkou »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #348
com2kid wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Child-care is subsidized. A child who would otherwise have been raised by a loving parent is raised by minimum wage daycare workers who don't care about the child. You are assuming massive incompetence on the part of child care workers with no prior evidence. At scale of course saving lives will result in the life of a future criminal being saved, but on the whole the # of good people outweighs the number of bad pe…

>You are assuming massive incompetence on the part of child care workers with no prior evidence. The fact that they earn minimum wage is evidence of their collective incompetence. The fact that they would not be emotionally destroyed by never seeing the child again when either they leave their job or the child moves on is evidence of their indifference. >19% of women with a post graduate degree is huge. How many mill…

> The fact that they earn minimum wage is evidence of their collective incompetence.

So, because society undervalues their work, they are incompetent losers, with anti-social behavior disorders?

Please, pray tell, how much do you think the people who grow the food that you need to live get paid? Do you think as poorly of them?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#363

Post by bradlys »

mjh2539 wrote: post #358
bradlys wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely weird when you think about it. It seems like a relatively new model. That said - what are you going to do about it? Our major cities and culture are not setup for addressing these issues at all. We have a hard enough time trying to pass anything through congress. Trying to get some huge child care bill through is nigh on impossible. On top of that - it will, of course, not do anything for people who l…

> What are you going to do about it? Have lots of kids and encourage them not to move so that there is a large support structure in place foe their children and their children's children.

Unless you have riches beyond imagination - this is not feasible in a modern economy... My SO is a prime example of this. She grew up in the bay area but she herself could never afford a home here cause homes be $2m now. Her parents never bought a home - so she will never inherit a fortune either. Even if they did - she wouldn't inherit it until they were dead (and thus unable to help take care of the children). So, she's either going to be unable to afford childcare (cause parents dead) or be unable to afford the house (cause parents alive) - likely unable to afford either (cause really she ain't ever gonna make enough either way).

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#364

Post by jimbokun »

secabeen wrote: post #357
anon4lol wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just went through the process of finding childcare for our infant. Originally, we were going to have my wife's parents move in to help, but her father was suddenly diagnosed with lung cancer, forcing us to scramble for child care. With my wife's student loans, it wouldn't be prudent for her to not work. Childcare costs more than twice as much as our mortgage. We live in a blue state where many businesses feel comp…

The idea of paying minimum wage to a child care provider also seems wrong too. Your child is spending more time with this person each week than they are with you. I'd think you'd want to pay more than minimum wage, to get quality caregivers.

Right, but how do you pay more than that, but still make it worthwhile for the parent to work after the cost of child care is deducted from their pay check?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#365

Post by logjammin »

giggles_giggles wrote: post #343
Dove wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am convinced the isolated stay at home parent model is not normal human behavior, but a pathology of our particular society which represents an unreasonable expectation derived from an excessive commitment to individualism and independence. It is not psychologically reasonable to expect one person to care for children all day every day. It is not historically or broadly culturally normal. It is not healthy for eith…

This is a weird comment that, in my experience, doesn't represent the reality of today's stay-at-home parents. I'd love to see hard data on this, but let me share my anecdotes in response to the middle paragraph here. My older sister has been a stay at home mother for almost a decade, so I'll share my observations from being an uncle: > It is normal for children to be cared for by many adults throughout the day, from…

Not sure why this is greyed out, but I appreciated your comment. Is Forest School a thing beyond where you live, do you know?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#366

Post by jessriedel »

aidenn0 wrote: post #274
thu2111 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the ratios are decided. 4:1 sounds pretty generous. There are families out there with stay at home mums that have 5 kids, and the mothers there have to do housework too. So the government is mandating here the child:carer hour ratio is better than some actual families. Do infants actually need the kind of attention these ratios imply? What happened to the era when families with lots of kids would just le…

Infant != kids. Twins are quite stressful for mothers, and 4 infants would be like having quadruplets. Usually the ratios continue to rise as the children get older. Here's California's rules, for example. From kindergarten (66 months age on average) and up it's 14:1 - Infants (birth to 18 months old) -1:3 - Toddlers (18 months to 36 months old) -1:4 - Preschool (36 months to enrollment in kindergarten) - 1:8 - Child…

Are these numbers based on anything concrete or are they just judgment calls? Whatever one thinks about class sizes, 14:1 seems absurd as a legal limit for everyone. There's no clear and present danger with having an adult watch 30 4th graders. (My guess is the preschool and toddler cutoffs are also too strict, although I feel less confident.)

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#367

Post by aceofspades19 »

edoceo wrote: post #326
briandear wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has a top marginal tax rate of 70% that kicks in at around $98,000. That $149 per month is deceptive when you are paying very high tax rates.

You're right! Taxing the high earners is a good idea, subsidized child care is just one of the many benefits.

Why is taxing high earners more a good idea? It just gives people an incentive to either not make that much money or leave the country to make more money.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#368

Post by sweeneyrod »

darawk wrote: post #186
pfortuny wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It would allow more women to enter the workforce”. I understand what the quote means but, honestly, this is one of the big wrong points of our society: that caring for the children full-time is NOT being part of the workforce. This is one of those cultural ideas embedded in XXI Century logic which only does harm and transmits the wrong message: people’s life is as valuable as the money the work or the “job” they hav…

I think you're missing the point of the "childcare is not part of the workforce" argument. It's not that it isn't work, and it's not that it isn't important. It's that, in many cases, the economic comparative advantage for the (often) female caretaker of those children is not being fully utilized. That is to say, caring for a child is a service that costs X. But it is being performed by a person who's skills are valu…

No, the point is that there is more to life than money. Caring for your own child has value that isn't captured by the amount of money you would have to pay someone else to do it. If you only care about economic efficiency then the whole idea of childcare is misguided; to maximise productivity you should set children to work as soon as they're able.

FYI, "comparative advantage" has a specific meaning, it isn't just a synonym for "advantage, but in economics".

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#369

Post by giggles_giggles »

ip26 wrote: post #354
giggles_giggles wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird comment that, in my experience, doesn't represent the reality of today's stay-at-home parents. I'd love to see hard data on this, but let me share my anecdotes in response to the middle paragraph here. My older sister has been a stay at home mother for almost a decade, so I'll share my observations from being an uncle: > It is normal for children to be cared for by many adults throughout the day, from…

How does one find these stay-at-home communities? By gods, we've tried for years.

Through church, mostly, I believe. In her case at least.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#370

Post by ihumanable »

aceofspades19 wrote: post #367
edoceo wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right! Taxing the high earners is a good idea, subsidized child care is just one of the many benefits.

Why is taxing high earners more a good idea? It just gives people an incentive to either not make that much money or leave the country to make more money.

"Taxes are high so I won't try to make more money" - No one ever.
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