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Microsoft Surface Studio

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Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#371

Post by detaro »

rsync wrote: post #365
detaro wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~33% more expensive than an Eizo FlexScan that has the same amount of pixels in 16:9. Not really unreasonable, I agree, but still painful.

It's square! Do you know what 1:1 ratio monitors (almost exclusively used for air traffic control) cost ? I think $8-10k IIRC ?

Yes, I know that all alternatives are a lot more expensive. On the other hand, you could buy a 34" 4k screen and tape over the sides to get it to 1:1 for a similar price ;)

(really, I'm only slightly annoyed because I'd love to have a bunch of those on the walls as picture frames, but can't afford it)

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#372

Post by helthanatos »

ProAm wrote: post #301
rubber_duck wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but unless this is a glorified exec office decoration, professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag

> professionals care about the specs very much Says everyone that is still paying full price for a 3 year old MacBook Pro....

They should have jumped ship from Apple by now. What design programs are there that require osx? They can build a much better computer for the money. Isn't that why Apple stopped?

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#373

Post by tcskeptic »

artursapek wrote: post #19

The hardware quality gap between Windows machines and Macs is closing quickly thanks to Microsoft's investments lately

I own a Surface Book, have since a month after launch last year. For the first six months it was so unreliable that I couldn't use it for anything. Crashes, docking issues, external monitor issues, trackpad issues, sleep/wake issues, just one damn thing after another. Things got better for a few months starting in June and it became my primary personal device -- just had another bout of frustration with a Windows update that could not complete but kept trying. I love the hardware, the experience has been the worst I can remember. Don't know if I have the patience for round two with a Surface Book 2

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#374

Post by usaphp »

atourgates wrote: post #307
gthtjtkt wrote: post #132

$2,999 and the best GPU option is a last-gen mobile card? The default 965M is a crappy budget card (half the performance of the 980M), and if you want the 980M you have to pick the $4,199 configuration. And hybrid drives!? This thing starts at $2,199 and you can't even get a full SSD? I know 2D designers probably won't mind the GPU, but they could definitely benefit from a true SSD. Hell, the recently announced Razer…

The value proposition is the responsive touch-screen. The closest responsive touch screen you can buy today is a 27" Wacom Cintiq, which is $2,299 without a computer, and both lower-resolution (2560x1440 vs 4500x3000) and smaller (27" vs 28") than the Surface Studio. So if you assume that about $2,300 of the device's costs go to the display and touch screen, you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that dis…

> "you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that display"

~$700 gets you a pretty basic computer with 965m, you can build a desktop with gtx 1070 for 700$ to power a wacom display. And you will be able to upgrade it in the future, with Studio you are stuck with a 965m for $3000. And if you are getting a 980m for $4200 that leaves you with a $1900 to build a computer for Wacom, which can be way more powerful than 980m...

I think Microsoft should have sell that monitor by itself, but I guess this way they could not shovel win10 updates down your throat so it is not a good option for them...

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#375

Post by BinaryIdiot »

rubber_duck wrote: post #227
tw04 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact you're focusing on the hardware specs while completely dismissing the form factor tells me you're not the target market.

Sorry but unless this is a glorified exec office decoration, professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag

> professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag

I did graphic work for many years and have worked with dozens of designers. None of them have ever been worried about specs. In fact the only person who even asked about them wanted a high end laptop so he could play video games on it at home.

I am unconvinced designers care about specs unless they're working on something specific that requires very high performance (which the majority would NOT be doing).

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#376

Post by heartbreak »

detaro wrote: post #363
rsync wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The screen. Clearly that is the thing which makes this announcement. For me, the 3:2 aspect ratio is so more reasonable for computers than 16:9. And having a zillion pixels is wonderful although my CAD package (TurboCAD) still doesn't deal well with the high DPI screen off the Surface Book, I'm sure it would look silly on this machine." It may interest you to know that there is a reasonably priced 1:1 aspect ratio m…

~33% more expensive than an Eizo FlexScan that has the same amount of pixels in 16:9. Not really unreasonable, I agree, but still painful.

1:1 is commonly used in medical imagery and other industrial applications, and for their sales numbers probably not a whole lot else. That's likely why the price is higher. Take a look here and notice the high count of 1:1 displays: http://www.necdisplay.com/category/medical-diagnostic-displa...

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#377

Post by BinaryIdiot »

gthtjtkt wrote: post #207
thisisdallas wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I must be missing the value proposition here The screen.

Then sell the screen itself. Why chain it to mediocre, non-upgradeable hardware?

Because user experience. Simply selling a screen that can move like this one with the proper touch inputs is going to require multiple drivers to make it behave correctly. Selling the screen by itself and now you have this issue of supporting all sorts of hardware (and you just KNOW someone is going to buy it and try using it with their Windows XP machine).

Tying it to the computer allows them to control the entire user experience including adding specialized software to take advantage of such an interesting screen. There is a reason Apple owns the full stack and why Microsoft and Google are trying to get into that space: it offers the best UX and ROI.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#378

Post by dcole2929 »

mhomde wrote: post #237
TheRealPomax wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of sad that the top comment on HN is about a part of Microsoft that has nothing to do with this new and frankly exciting piece of technology =( As for the "how can they", the answer is remarkably simple: it's hurting their bottom line and there's no indication that a better strategy exists in the markets they're active in. If you don't understand why they don't just pour resources into mobile: resources are…

I see your point, I think it comes down to if you believe a major actor like Apple/Google/Microsoft can afford to ignore mobile... I think it's too integral with their ecosystem, being present in mobile will bring more business to their other devices... but I can see the other POV as well. Anyways, I'm really glad where they're headed with the Surface Books/Studio. It's been a little slow getting the next generation…

> I think it comes down to if you believe a major actor like Apple/Google/Microsoft can afford to ignore mobile

I think it's important to note the distinction that they are seemingly ignoring this generation of mobile. Windows Phone has been a disaster and not for lack of trying on their part. The phones themselves have been mostly solid but it's hard to overcome the ecosystem problem. That said with the moves Microsoft has made over the last few years they are well positioned to be a major player in whatever the next iteration of mobile is. We've seen companies become major players and then all but disappear in the 10 years since the first iPhone kicked off the smartphone revolution. It's not to think that crazy that Microsoft might leverage some of their new input device knowledge to craft some new device that allows them to be major players in Mobile 2.0 or whatever you want to call it. If you believe that the current state of mobile HCI is the zenith then yes you are right to be concerned. But if you think we are going to keep pushing pass the status quo then Microsoft is probably is good shape.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#379

Post by rubber_duck »

blahblah12 wrote: post #302
rubber_duck wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but unless this is a glorified exec office decoration, professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag

All the designers I know on their MBP 13-inch/15-inch, without dGPUs will surely agree with these statements about needing the latest dGPU.

You don't need a desktop for that kind of work in the first place, a laptop is way more convenient, you're probably going to want one even if you get this, and at that point you can just plug it in to a high end monitor for half the price of this. Hell you can buy a top of the line laptop with better specs for the other half.

Doing video editing, 3D at that resolution, VR, etc. are the kind of workloads you need a desktop machine for - this doesn't cut it.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#380

Post by [deleted] »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #353
porkloin wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in an office of graphic designers, and they all have overpowered hardware that they bought thinking they needed the latest and greatest to run Photoshop and Illustrator. They don't need a breakneck GPU - they need a device like this that gives them new, intuitive input options. That said, for any kind of 3D development this hardware isn't up to snuff. Anyway, the device seems more targeted at 2D graphic design…

Agree 100% there are thousands of offices out there with photoshop monkeys making web pages, signs, adverts, car wraps, promotional material, etc etc all of who would love to have one of these. All those ageing iMacs need to replaced soon.

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