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I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

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Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#361
post #4

If building something on agricultural land is hard, it is good: it is called agricultural for a reason. Maybe buying a parcel of industrial or commercial land would have ended up cheaper?

Author of the article here: All the land in India is agricultural by default. Except in some desert states.

Hey author, this is OP. Thanks for documenting your ordeal.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of the article here: All the land in India is agricultural by default. Except in some desert states.

Really? Lots of land parcels are identified as Non-agricultural.

Yeah. His motivations seem a bit suspicious. Is he so ignorant to claim all land in India is agricultural land.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#363
post #224
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paperwork is an attempt(usually misguided) to stop the corruption. The idea is that if you have to account and document all actions you will have act in the proscribed manner and not in a way that benefits you. This usually fails for the reason you posted. I am not really sure how you are supposed to stop corruption once it gets rooted in your society. It is a vile and subversive menace that turns every one into…

The podcast "The Rest Is Politics" did an interesting interview with the Prime Minister of Albania recently, where he made the argument that the best way to deal with corruption is to get rid of the paperwork altogether, and basically make government services so easy to access that corruption and bribery wasn't necessary in the first place. So he'd been putting a lot of work into digitising as much as possible, makin…

This sort of thinking also prevents some kinds of scams. For instance there are web sites that masquerade as British government sites for paying road tax/vehicle tax and charge fees that the official site does not. Similar sites scam people out of money for making ESTA visa applications to visit the US

In Norway this road fund fee is collected automatically by the insurance company. This is obviously easier for the user (zero paperwork), less work for the state, and prevents scam artists from duping people.

And back on the subject of registering a company: in Norway this is done online and takes minutes.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#364
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a fan of the Singapore anti-corruption method of paying bureaucrats a lot of money. That way they don't have to have corruption side hustles and you can attract good talent to these positions. Somehow this is more unpopular than widespread political corruption.

I'd be sceptical given just how greedy corrupt bureaucrats can be. There's not much to stop a crook being both officially well paid and totally corrupt.

According to transparency international, Singapore is one of the least corrupt countries on earth. If a politician could make several million dollars a year just from his job, you could attract major corporation CEO caliber people. Otherwise, why would a highly talented person want to deal with untangling that mess?

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#365
post #255
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be sceptical given just how greedy corrupt bureaucrats can be. There's not much to stop a crook being both officially well paid and totally corrupt.

Yes, but the position will be taken by a honest guy already.

Ah, you have a good heart to give them the benefit of the doubt but remember these aphorisms:

A fish rots from the head down.

and

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

and

Nothing disinfects better than sun light.

IMHO they all apply when dealing with public servants in unchecked positions of power.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#366

~5 years ago, I hired three Indian developers. They asked me if we could set up an Indian legal entity, so that they could just get regular salaries in India with tax payments, deductions etc taken care of. I agreed and we got it done. One of the worst business-decisions of my life. The amount of red tape, stupid rules, corruption, signatures, stamps, showing up physically in a certain office etc etc... Mindblowing.…

I came to the comments to warn exactly this, perhaps more emphatically. Do not set up a legal entity in India. It will become a never-ending void where money and time go to die. The bureaucracy is hilariously inept and bloated, and if you are not willing to pay the bribes or for some entity to navigate the systemic corruption on your behalf, you will end up in OP's situation. Source: hired many Indian developers in r…

also at every level, where you are expected to file forms or deal with any officials, you will be asked to pay some bribe, and there will be 'agents' who offer to do it for you using whatever illegal means they can, for a 'fee', and in many cases they are the only feasible way of getting it done. This happens in every corrupt economy/country but in India its an art form and taken to its logical extreme.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well for small payments we need a simple tax box, no country is doing that, all countries require a ton of paperwork for each new “employee”.

Why not just have one payment system to rule them all run by the government that is required by law for all payment of employee-driven services? Businesses could save a TON of money on payroll systems and HR. A government-run system--presumably--would take care of withholding the correct amount of taxes and also making sure the business/person paying a salary never has to worry about running afoul of the law (having…

In France there are more than a hundred mandatory numbers on the paysheet. Each class of worker has its own retirement/health/subhealth/old-age-health/unemployment/family benefits. Each has a different rate.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#368
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US citizens bribing foreign officials can be convicted of a felony under (I think it is) The Foreign Corrupt Practices act. Whether DOJ chases down three-developer scale stuff, or has only the staff for multi-zillion class bribes, I don't know.

If you are paying them to do something they're supposed to do but refuse to do in a timely manner, that may be legal. It's called a facilitating payment or grease payment, and is an exception to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Ask a real lawyer, obviously.

Yeah, I remember this from my compliance training because it was so ridiculous. It is just a type of bribe, but since it has a special name and a carve out it is potentially not a problem!

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#369
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This is what the rest of the world usually says on the first encounter with "tips culture" in the US. As I see it, cultures are different and one thing that is considered an absolute taboo in one culture might be customary in another. Tips in the US are customary yet at the same time they are offensive in Japan. Bribes are killing the economy in my country yet it makes economy moving in India. PS: I personal…

> Exactly. This is what the rest of the world usually says on the first encounter with "tips culture" in the US. I think my shock was greater when I discovered that lobbying in the US means "literal legal bribery". In a lot of the western world that word it means things "having meetings" and perhaps "organizing PR campaigns". Straight up giving money to politicians is against the law.

This may sound like a distinction without a difference, but it is explicitly illegal to give money directly to politicians in the United States. Lobbying is giving money to their campaign committees, which get them elected or re-elected. It is also explicitly very illegal for campaign committees to use their funds to do anything for the candidate -- there are a huge[0] number[1] of politicians[2] who have been severely[3] penalized for flouting campaign finance laws. Further, there are severe restrictions on what the campaign committee can use their money for, which is largely restricted to travel for the campaign, advertising, and paying campaign staff.

These are just some recent examples of federal politicians who have run afoul of these laws, but they apply at all levels of government, as well as to staff (both campaign staff and the official staff of elected officials).

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_D._Hunter

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson_Jr.

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grimm_(politician)

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#370
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is huge. Could there be a district with enough integrity that it can become the place to establish a company in India?

I think the state of Bihar is trying to do that (just armchair analysis from reading the news)

Seriously, Is this a joke. Bihar would be right at the bottom of states if I ever setup shop.
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