Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I mean, if he pardons before the debates, suddenly that takes up a debate topic slot. All he has to do is directly ask Biden, ‘You don’t think Snowden did the right thing by exposing your administration’s surveillance program?’. It’s such an easy win, and will take mindshare away from other issues (coronavirus response, police reform, Medicare/social security cuts). Add a TikTok ban in there and take up another…
I think there is almost zero chance that Biden will debate him. If he does pardoning Snowden and making that into an issue is a brilliant move. That will sting hard.
Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
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Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
A nice example is uBlock Origin, which was (probably) created as a result of the Snowden leaks. June 2013 - Snowden leaks NSA documents September 2013 - the first commit to the Script HQ extension is made (which soon became HTTP Switchboard, which later became uMatrix and uBlock) https://github.com/gorhill/httpswitchboard/commits/master?af...
ad blocking existed long before uBlock. uBlock was notable as being a more efficient way of doing it, not a more effective way (i.e. its still using the same form of block lists)
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#363Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have absolutely zero idea what that means. So does it require some effort from him to pardon Snowden or not?
No! All he has to do is sign a piece of paper.
Most pardons involve process though. Felons apply for a pardon, there's a small board to review applications, most are rejected -- that sort of thing. But the President can pardon anyone, at any time, for any Federal crime they have been charged with, before during or after trial (if convicted).
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for this. He exposed clearly illegal activity and framing him as a leader changes the narrative. He is a whistleblower who upheld his oath to protect the constitution of the US, in the face of severe consequences.
I'm sure you meant to say leaker not leader, correct?
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you'd been paying attention you'd know that the President has the absolute, unquestionable power to pardon offenses against the United States, which specifically means: offences under Federal law, but not offenses under State law.
This was an idea floated recently in a backlash against the President looking to pardon Paul Manafort. ...but it is unclear if it holds any legal water. The reality is that it is legally untested, and there's a good chance that Double Jeopardy will protect someone who's pardoned Federally, and then brought up on State charges for the same offense. I might be wrong, but I don't believe there's ever been a case of a St…
A quick read through of the Wikipedia article for double jeopardy[0] describes implications and legal tests for double jeopardy.
The shortest summary I can make of that article that seems relevant is this:
If you need exactly the same set of facts to prove crime A as crime B, or fewer facts than A to prove B, then they are the same crime. If crime B needs one fact not required for A, then it is a different crime for purposes of double jeopardy.
Based on this reading, it appears that a federal pardon would not imply no state charges. Or, a federal pardon leaves the question of state charges an open one.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally I don't see leaker as an automatic pejorative.
Agreed. There have been plenty of people labeled "leakers" inside the White House who have been celebrated by the media, like Eric Ciaramella.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think after 3 and 1/2 years, we'd all recognize by now that Trump more often than not says things just to stir up controversy. As others have said, this isn't newsworthy until he actually does something.
If stirring that controversy means reigniting debate about our collective surveillance apparatus then I'm not sure how I should feel :)
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you'd been paying attention you'd know that the President has the absolute, unquestionable power to pardon offenses against the United States, which specifically means: offences under Federal law, but not offenses under State law.
This was an idea floated recently in a backlash against the President looking to pardon Paul Manafort. ...but it is unclear if it holds any legal water. The reality is that it is legally untested, and there's a good chance that Double Jeopardy will protect someone who's pardoned Federally, and then brought up on State charges for the same offense. I might be wrong, but I don't believe there's ever been a case of a St…
> but it is unclear if it holds any legal water.
The claim that POTUS cannot grant clemency for a state conviction definitely holds legal water.
The plain meaning of that clause is extremely clear and its meaning is thoroughly and universally understood in the legal field.
> The reality is that it is legally untested
Re: POTUS directly granting clemency for state convictions, only in a sort of vacuous way. Meaning, this is true for almost everything that is blatantly unconstitutional. E.g., the president having the military disband congress is also "legally untested". I have zero doubt that the current SCOTUS would unanimously reject an attempt by the president to directly grant clemency for a state conviction.
> there's a good chance that Double Jeopardy will protect someone who's pardoned Federally, and then brought up on State charges for the same offense.
Notice that the only reason this indirect argument is made is because POTUS clearly cannot grant clemency directly.
Although this particular theory about Double Jeopardy has not been tested, there's an entire legal doctrine that addresses this question (the Dual Sovereignty Doctrine). The Roberts Court affirmed this doctrine in Gamble.
The primary justification for the Dual Sovereignty Doctrine is that different sovereigns might have different interests. That justification speaks directly to whether the federal executive should be able to grant clemency for state convictions (no, because the state executive might have different interests in prosecution). See https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5_2_1_2_2...
So,
1. the President very clearly cannot directly grant clemency for state convictions, and
2. the Roberts court affirmed the Dual Sovereignty Doctrine not one year ago in a 7-2 decision. Go read that decision -- the reasons for upholding the Dual Sovereignty Doctrine speak almost directly to the question at hand.
Given these two facts, it's highly improbable that the President could pardon a federal conviction and then convince the Roberts court to extend that clemency to state convictions via a significant narrowing of the Dual Sovereignty Doctrine. In fact, I'd say that a raw exercise of force is more likely to succeed.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
Politically, he just says insane things that get headlines, which distract from the real news: Covid killing hundreds of thousands under his care, dismantling of the Post Office, and other highly unpopular consequences of his presidency.
Covid killing hundreds of thousands under his care But the US is near the middle-bottom of per capita deaths in Western countries and far behind several European countries.[1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat...
If we're just doing per-capita snapshots, the US is doing 8x worse than India and 20x worse than China. Both countries that are far poorer and more densely populated.
By literally any measure, it's been an indefensible performance. Total shitshow.