Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 404 posts

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#341

Post by drivingmenuts »

duxup wrote: post #75
mindcrime wrote: post #54

I'll be impressed when he actually issues a pardon. I'd say Trump is notorious for "talking about" things without ever delivering anything. Take the issue of 50 state concealed carry reciprocity. Regardless of what you think about this issue yourself, it seems clear that Trump has tried to pander to gun owners and 2A advocates by constantly talking about this. But last I heard, there had been no meaningful action on…

Trump really hasn't taken the lead in much in the way of legislative action, almost ever. I don't think he understands or has the patience for the process. Anything beyond what he can try to decree himself, he seems to lose interest / struggle with. Even tripping up his own party members in congress while they try to understand what he wants. He has threatened to veto things he pushed for... then signed them shortly…

He wants to be an absolute monarch, ruling by decree, rather than a President, working thru a process. His entire business experience that has led him to this point. He will pardon Snowden only if it makes him look better and he absolutely will expect a large return from Snowden and his followers. He doesn’t actually give a damn, beyond what it gets him.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#342

Post by lern_too_spel »

dragonwriter wrote: post #331
lern_too_spel wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, the intelligence community IG report mandated by the FISA Amendments Act that leaked and was published just after, and almost certainly because of, the publication of the Snowden leaks did paint such a picture. In what way does it show the NSA having access to everybody's communications as Snowden alleged? Your comment is full of underspecified insinuations with no concrete facts to back them up.

> In what way does it show the NSA having access to everybody's communications That wasn't the claim, the claim was—in your words—that it showed “deep state intelligence agencies run amok illegally spying on Americans”. > Your comment is full of underspecified insinuations The level of specification was set by your original description.

If that is what you're trying to refute, you've presented an irrelevant example, so no wonder I was confused. A few agents breaking rules and being caught is not entire agencies running amok, and the rules they broke involved spying on non-Americans, so you have met neither standard.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#343

Post by lern_too_spel »

monocasa wrote: post #276
lern_too_spel wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using a database with records of most Americans in it. How did you make up this "records of most Americans in it" claim? How would communications between targeted non-citizens outside the US with other non-citizens outside the US contain records of most Americans? To understand the article you posted, you have to understand the terms in it first. Since I'm being rate-limited, some responses to the comment below (if…

The NSA believes it only has to be accurate "51%" of the time, with no court oversight that they're hitting that goal. The court above had found out that the FBI routinely didn't follow it, to the point of an unconstitutional view of the program as a whole. They weren't following the rules you're laying out.

Now that I'm not rate limited:

> The NSA believes it only has to be accurate "51%" of the time, with no court oversight that they're hitting that goal.

No, it doesn't. Where does that claim come from?

>The court above had found out that the FBI routinely didn't follow it

Follow what? You're confusing 702 collection, which requires showing that the target is a non-citizen outside the US communicating with the same, with querying of that non-American data for American identifiers, which merely requires sufficient documentation for oversight. You very clearly don't understand the article you posted.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#345

Post by koheripbal »

cryptonector wrote: post #312
krick wrote: post #262

I agree with all these "wake me up when it happens" poster, because I just generally don't like "nothing happened" news. But seriously, say Trump (or whoever might have been in his place) actually wants to do this as a populistic move: is it hard to do? Does it require any bureaucratic bullshit, arguing with people, forcing stuff, or is it just some paper to sign and it's done? Does it require any effort (and how muc…

If you'd been paying attention you'd know that the President has the absolute, unquestionable power to pardon offenses against the United States, which specifically means: offences under Federal law, but not offenses under State law.

This was an idea floated recently in a backlash against the President looking to pardon Paul Manafort. ...but it is unclear if it holds any legal water.

The reality is that it is legally untested, and there's a good chance that Double Jeopardy will protect someone who's pardoned Federally, and then brought up on State charges for the same offense.

I might be wrong, but I don't believe there's ever been a case of a State prosecute even attempting to charge someone at the State level with an crime they've already been pardoned of by the President.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#346

Post by koheripbal »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #149
kgarten wrote: post #58

Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.

Thank you for this. He exposed clearly illegal activity and framing him as a leader changes the narrative. He is a whistleblower who upheld his oath to protect the constitution of the US, in the face of severe consequences.

The problem is that he also exposed a lot of not-illegal material. Things that were entirely legal, yet classified.

I don't think there's any legal way Snowden wouldn't face a conviction if he was returned to the US, even if you exclude all the "illegal" activity he exposed from evidence against him.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#347

Post by [deleted] »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #164
boomboomsubban wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden's method of whistleblowing was leaking documents to the press. He is both.

It's all semantics, he revealed valuable knowledge to the public about how the government was unConstitutionally surveilling them at every opportunity without remorse or apology

[deleted]

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#348

Post by coronadisaster »

insickness wrote: post #318
coronadisaster wrote: post #251

Also repeal the "PATRIOT" Act while you're thinking about doing the right thing...

Presidents can't repeal laws. Only congress can do that.

But in this case, the president can get rid of it because it expires periodically and all he has to do is not sign the extension. But unfortunately, I don't think that he will need to sign it before the next election and also, they often include a bunch of unrelated stuff in the bill: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/11/21/fund-n21.html.

Obama promised to let it die... but he didn't.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#349

Post by cortesoft »

apendleton wrote: post #124
cortesoft wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaking is a type of whistleblowing. Not all whistleblowers are leakers, but leaking secret information is one way to be a whistleblower.

I don't think either is a superset/subset of the other -- the Venn circles overlap, but there are definitely leakers who are not whistleblowers. Like, leaking salacious celebrity gossip to a tabloid is not whistleblowing.

Yes, you are correct

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#350

Post by stjohnswarts »

cryptonector wrote: post #312
krick wrote: post #262

I agree with all these "wake me up when it happens" poster, because I just generally don't like "nothing happened" news. But seriously, say Trump (or whoever might have been in his place) actually wants to do this as a populistic move: is it hard to do? Does it require any bureaucratic bullshit, arguing with people, forcing stuff, or is it just some paper to sign and it's done? Does it require any effort (and how muc…

If you'd been paying attention you'd know that the President has the absolute, unquestionable power to pardon offenses against the United States, which specifically means: offences under Federal law, but not offenses under State law.

Pardoning a whistleblower who was just trying to protect the Constitution and help stave off intelligence agencies from spying on everyone a bit less seems like exactly what pardons were created for. What bigger injustice is there than upholding the law of the land and being declared a traitor despite only trying to help save our democracy from autocratic forces?
Post reply on HN