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Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

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Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#361

Post by lustysocietyorg »

bluecalm wrote: post #354
turtlecloud wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that’s the complete opposite of the keto diet which is high fat low carb and is the top diet in America in 2019

How is keto a top diet in America? Vast majority of people in America get majority of their calories from carbs.

It is among the top diets promoted by fake experts (e.g. youtubers, magazines,...) and marketing experts.

Even kitchen machines for vegetables have "low carb" stickers on the box. Crazy.

> Vast majority of people in America get majority of their calories from carbs.

Maybe they still get too much calories form other sources. Of course sugar in soft drinks are not the best carbs.

Dr Garth Davis: Americans have become obsessed with Protein (2015-10-28). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQCt3IhaUtU

And US food and junk food is quite fatty. Also because of meat.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#362

Post by wavegeek »

lustysocietyorg wrote: post #348
intended wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, 10 years later, there will be fads and forwards which talk about eating "Natural" protein, not this fake stuff. 15 years later, there will be science talking about how micro nutrients are missing from meat substitutes and how a natural, healthy and balanced diet is necessary for human beings.

The nutrition science in 2019 is clear and has been clear for decades. A high carb low fat low protein whole food plant based diet with (cheap) vitamin supplements and maybe linseed oil: - is the healthiest diet. - is the cheapest diet. - is the most efficient and environment friendly diet. - is the most ethical diet with regard to immoral animal suffering caused by humans.

Citation required.

I was on such a diet for many years and eventually gave up on it because I could not make it work in a healthy way.

Why?

Too many deficiencies. Example: Linseed oil /= DHA/EPA. Many or most people cannot make long chain Omega 3 fats in the quantity needed from vegetable "Omega 3" fats.

Too many anti-nutrients in plants.

Get on youtube and search "I used to be a vegan" for numerous cases like mine, health irreparably damaged.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#363

Post by mikekchar »

raving-richard wrote: post #223
ci5er wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to camel, giraffe, horse, zebra, gazelle, whale, dolphin, human, shark, eel, (most) bugs and worms, elephant, ... etc., I've got to say that whoever came up with pigs and cows were doing their job properly. They taste better than all of the above.

Of these, I've eaten horse, whale, shark and eel. Actually, probably I've also eaten bugs. The shark that I've eaten is perfectly good, and better than many other fish types (taste wise). Eel was good, but has to be prepared appropriately. Try it Japanese style. The other two, not worth it. But again, probably something to do with preparation. Perhaps the way the French prepare horse is better than the way the Japane…

I'm actually shocked. Have you tasted basashi (raw horse meat) against raw wagyu (Japanese style beef)? IMHO basashi is much better. It has an almost "super-cow" flavour. One thing that's important, though. Most izakayas don't serve enough basashi to justify having it fresh. They freeze it. Not only that, but they serve it still frozen. Basashi needs to come up to temperature. Similar to beef, frozen horse meat sometimes has a tendency break down and pick up a liver flavour. A lot depends on the way it is slaughtered and bled -- most basashi actually comes from Canada and there are very few slaughter houses in Canada. If you go to Kumamoto and go to an izakaya that specialised in Basashi, you should be able to get good fresh, Japanese horse meat. It's amazing (again IMHO).

Edit: Fix error in describing slaughtering...

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#364

Post by eeZah7Ux »

ngngngng wrote: post #301
greglindahl wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if other people disagree about what the best option for their personal viewpoint is.

I just think it's all more complicated than people want it to be. Some choices in life MIGHT have a slight net positive on the environment or on animals deaths. But then people get so invested in the outcomes that they paint it as completely black and white.

No, the differences are very big, real and well documented.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#365

Post by mcv »

I'm not sure his prediction is true. A lot of people do have loyalty to meat. There are already some really tasty alternatives. They just may not exactly duplicate the taste of every kind of meat, or even taste like meat at all, but they do taste very good. Some people eat low quality, tasteless meat. People still buy meat, because it's what they know and what they grew up with as a symbol of luxury.

I hope his predicted switch comes, but I disagree with his argument.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#366

Post by throwaway392311 »

mratzloff wrote: post #166
tgb wrote: post #8

I think he's wrong about people not having loyalty to meat. There is a ton of literal hatred for veganism and vegetarians in this world. Think of the practically cult-like following bacon has. I recall a thread some years ago on Reddit's r/fitness with someone asking for vegan protein sources due to certain allergies or other health restrictions and it was spammed with dozens of comments along the lines of "bacon" an…

I'm vegetarian. I never bring it up, but when other people find out about it they will not shut the fuck up about it . They will tell me why they aren't vegetarian, they will ask me why I'm one, and they will tell me about all the vegetarians or vegans in their lives who they claim won't stop talking about it. I suspect that's more than a little projection. Meat is just a part of some people's identity, just like sex…

Same here. I have a rule to never tell people about my diet unless they ask and never attempt at proselytizing. At least once a month somebody will tell me how preachy vegetarians are and attempt at interrogating me.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#367

Post by wodenokoto »

jameslk wrote: post #131

Since we're making predictions here, I predict that shortly after we adopt meat substitutes, we'll start to question what's inside them. Then the conversation will change from meat substitutes being good and healthy to something akin to the GMO debate about meat substitutes not being natural. And just like GMOs, whether it's actually bad for you or not won't matter. This debate will be a proxy war between Big Meat an…

> Then the conversation will change from meat substitutes being good and healthy to something akin to the GMO debate about meat substitutes not being natural.

While I actually haven't seen this debate online,I hear it in real life when the subject lands on those meat substitutes available where I live.

People who look at the ingredients list see a lot of E-numbers and things that sounds even scarier.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#368

Post by nabla9 »

strken wrote: post #273
nabla9 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the meat in the market is already something else than what people think meat is. Meatballs may have more than half chicken skin. Burgers contain 25% filler. Pink slime (= lean finely textured beef) is a highly processed meat by-product. In the US its processed with ammonia but that's not allowed in EU.

"Pink slime" is made by centrifuging heated fatty offcuts, which doesn't turn my stomach that much. I have a sneaking suspicion that what people find disgusting is the industrial production of meat, and that if Gordon Ramsey had a small and inoffensive centrifuge attachment for his KitchenAid the process would seem less gross.

High status for the rich food can be gross, but it can't be low quality. Ammonia or citric acid processed slime-paste is as low quality as it gets. Adding pink slime to the product changes the texture. Pink slime less meaty and juicy compared to normal beef.

Good chef can do good simple food, but they want good ingredient and that's not that pink slime is.

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#369

Post by mcv »

ngngngng wrote: post #281
sureaboutthis wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why one needs to be cooking for themselves as I have while eating my--coincidentally enough--made from scratch spaghetti and meatballs for dinner tonight.

Honestly though chicken skin is delicious. I don't know why it would bother me to have it in my meatballs.

I seem to be the only one in my family who thinks so. I've always loved it, but my parents avoided it, and my wife and kids refuse to eat it.

And I'm the one who used to be a vegetarian for nearly 20 years.

(The best bit of the chicken is the thigh, though.)

Re: Paul Graham on the Transition to Meat Substitutes

#370

Post by zimpenfish »

darkpuma wrote: post #360
zimpenfish wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't figure out why anybody would buy them premade People who don't have a kitchen big enough for cooking in bulk like that? People without freezers? People without that amount of free time? People don't really like food? People with motion disabilities? I've probably missed out some groups.

> People who don't have a kitchen big enough for cooking in bulk like that? By "bulk" I mean an oven tray or two. I'm not rocking an commercial kitchen here. > People without freezers? Where do they put their frozen meatballs from the store? The time is amortized, if you don't like food then you shouldn't care anyway, and I really doubt most people buying frozen meatballs from the store have disabilities.

> Where do they put their frozen meatballs from the store?

Perhaps they're buying frozen ones to cook immediately (much like frozen meals)?

> I really doubt most people buying frozen meatballs from the store have disabilities

It might not be "most" for that one group, sure, but the groups I suggested probably do cover "most" in total.

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