Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#361

Post by xiphias2 » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #169

xiphias2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average person with less intelligence is capable of doing the same thinking, just slower. I believe that the problem is that STEM classes aren't separated by the speed of thinking. Also easier for a person to accept that he/she just doesn't get math, instead of the fact that he/she is thinking slower than other people. I found myself thinking slower as I get older (and having more health problems), but so far I was a…

> Average person with less intelligence is capable of doing the same thinking, just slower Intelligence is not just about the speed of thought. It's also about the depth of memory, the number of associations one has in one's internal model, and numerous other factors. Consider a computer's memory that's halved. Suddenly it can run significantly fewer programs despite the fact that it rjnd at exactly the same speed.

It sounds interesting, it' s more likely the number of associations than working memory, as I always had very bad working and long term memory compared to other people, still I was the best in elementary class in math without any studying (of course this changed after I went to a school specialized in math).

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#362

Post by moorhosj » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #308

moorhosj wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

==solely middle-class country== Isn't it possible that the reason their middle-class is so large is due in some part on political decisions they've made? I think it is at least worth exploring before we jump to the ethnic breakdown of the country. Political choices are something we can change relatively quickly compared to demographics. The US has a higher GDP per capita than Sweden and Denmark which implies that the…

Yes however the demographic diversity in the US makes it less likely for people to want to "spread it" around. If your entire country is the population of one large US metro and everyone is the same ethnicity and culture, there are fewer cognitive impediments to being empathetic at scale.

==everyone is the same ethnicity and culture==

I think depends on how you define ethnicity and culture.

Sweden foreign-born population - 17.0% [1]

US foreign-born population - 13.7% [2]

[1] https://nordic.businessinsider.com/swedens-foreign-born-popu...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-data/u-s-...

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#363

Post by malvosenior » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:44 PM UTC

kiliantics wrote: post #293

linkmotif wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people could do well in America if they made economic decisions that led to them accumulating wealth.

Ah yes, poor because they are not smart. Because the US is a perfect meritocracy. This is ludicrously off the mark and shows how out of touch people really are about how the world works for others.

Having grown up poor I'd say it's not that poor people are not as smart, it's that they are extremely anti-intellectual. I tried my hardest to get family/friends/community into computers (or really any intellectual pursuit). Resistance was extreme to say the least. Reading a book is looked down upon. Computers are for "nerds". I used too many "five dollar words"...

If you want a real view of the situation you have to place some blame on the people making choices holding themselves back. It's not that easy to see if you didn't grow up in that environment though.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#364

Post by softawre » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:45 PM UTC

Pulcinella wrote: post #179

aantix wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without incentives, there is no innovation. And if everyone is entitled to the same portion of the pie, what’s the incentive to work harder? Seeing your neighbor put in a third of the effort and produce the same economic result is demoralizing.

This is a pretty negative outlook on humanity. People do things for reasons other than making money. Also seeing your boss put in a third the effort and produce 10 times the paycheck is also demoralizing...

Do most bosses make 10x the pay? I think that's highly unlikely. Maybe you meant CEO?

I'm 90% sure that my boss makes about 1.2x what I make.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#365

Post by softawre » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

rock_hard wrote: post #285

Daishiman wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically speaking, you're wrong; class mobility in Western Europe is equal to or better than in the US. Good thing you found a country where the culture might have helped you do things you didn't feel like doing back home, but don talk about it as though your personal experience is universal to all, because the numbers tell otherwise.

I am aware of the numbers...but I don’t think they paint the whole picture. But that’s besides the point, the point I was trying to make is that America worked much better for a person like me. Likewise I can imagine a place like Europe working better for some folks. If only people had free mobility...maybe everybody could just love in a place that works for them

If you are so inclined, can you explain what the whole picture shows?

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#366

Post by danmaz74 » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

gotocake wrote: post #259

danmaz74 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you study history, you also quickly learn that there were orders of magnitude more poor people killed by the rich and powerful than the other way around. Are mobs always morally in the right? Absolutely not. But neither the opposite is true.

If you study history, you also quickly learn that there were orders of magnitude more poor people killed by the rich and powerful than the other way around. Yes, but considering that there have always been orders of magnitude more poor people than rich and powerful people, your statement is effectively empty. More telling is that the rich and powerful get away with it, until they don’t. In France during the Revolutio…

Completely agree with the orderly redistribution.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#367

Post by chrisco255 » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

at-fates-hands wrote: post #248

CalRobert wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in tech. My wife does not. We came to the EU and I noticed that I make a good deal less, but she makes more. Even more important, though, instead of me getting lots of vacation time and her getting almost nothing, we both get a month off a year, protected by law (no bullshit "unlimited vacation" policy can take it away). We can finally take proper holidays together. Life is better here.

> protected by law (no bullshit "unlimited vacation" policy can take it away). I've worked at two places who had this policy and it was remarkable how many people just burned themselves out by NOT taking a single day of vacation. There was always pressure from management to NOT take vacation, then you add in pressure from your co-workers to continually work late, push to get projects done on time, all at the cost of…

This is weird to me, because I work at a UPTO company and most of my co-workers take at least 3-4 weeks off a year of vacation time and they don't have to worry about it cutting into their sick leave. Whereas, I've worked at other companies and you may start at 15 days PTO and it's one bucket for sick time and vacation.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#368

Post by ghobs91 » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #275

rock_hard wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I came to America I had nothing: no social network, no college degree, no money! But America is a place full of opportunity and so after 10 years here and a lot of work I can look back and say that am much happier than I ever was in Europe since the day I got here! The deal is simple: work hard and the sky is the limit. I started a family, have worked at Fortune 20 companies in management positions, bought a hou…

Statistically speaking, you're wrong; class mobility in Western Europe is equal to or better than in the US. Good thing you found a country where the culture might have helped you do things you didn't feel like doing back home, but don talk about it as though your personal experience is universal to all, because the numbers tell otherwise.

The issue with most of the studies that say this is how they measure mobility. If the focus is on the ability to move up in income percentiles, then it's an unfair comparison.

Why? Because while it sounds nice to say "avg german child moves from top 50% to top 65% while avg american only moves from top 50% to top 55%", American salaries are much higher, and cost of housing is on par or lower than Europe, so top 55% is a much higher financial increase for the American.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#369

Post by mr_overalls » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

ummonk wrote: post #334

lkrubner wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wildly incorrect. Angela Merkel got in trouble precisely because she accepted so many Syrian refugees. Germany absorbed almost a million refugees in one year, which is an incredible number. On a per capital basis, that would be like the USA accepting 4 million refugees in one year, when in fact net immigration to the USA, of all forms, tends to run at about 10% to 15% of that level.

That is the point isn't it? European countries finally start catching up to the US in the size of their immigrant population, and all of a sudden you're seeing massive social upheaval and populist movements popping up everywhere.

> European countries finally start catching up to the US in the size of their immigrant population,

No. Several European countries have had significant foreign-born populations for a long time.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/549292/foreign-born-popu...

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#370

Post by danans » Tue, Feb 05, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

MockObject wrote: post #322

kiliantics wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it sounds like anti-socialist pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps propaganda. It's not wholesome because it's not how things work for most people. The commenter could be very lucky or (more likely) very blind to real privileges they benefited from in their story. But their story fits a narrative that allows people to feel comfortable with their wealth while poverty is rampant around them, so such people find…

That seems like an extreme reaction. I don't think you're supposed to downvote someone's lived experience just because it doesn't apply to everyone. (Those few personal stories that do apply to everyone are pretty boring, usually involving bodily functions.) It would be nice if more people could experience such things. That makes the story good, not bad. It is something we want to maximize, not minimize.

Personal stories are fine, bit they should limit their conclusions to themselves and not project or over generalize upon others, at least not without pointing to data or a well tested model that backs up their assertions. Statements like "socialism makes people dead inside" are as vaccuous as the same assertion would be if applied to capitalism.