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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#361

Post by yeukhon »

bad_user wrote: post #179
tanilama wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is WeChat, and it is far more successful than WhatsApp.

With WhatsApp having over 1 Billion daily active users [1], I find that really hard to believe, but assuming that all of China's population is on WeChat ... My point is that WeChat does not exist for me and probably never will. [1] https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000631/Connecting-One-Billion-Us...

The last bothers me. It sounds like you invalidate his/her comment because you don't use it. WeChat is definitely more Chinese-speaking population dominant, but not necessarily just users in China. This is a massive network.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#362

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mads wrote: post #204
creatrixcordis wrote: post #191

I visited China for a month and my view is limited, but i do not think the average Chen in China cares about this, just like the average John in America doesn't. They are happy to be able to grow their personal GDP as much as they can. A lot of people there are part of the waves of the population that are provided incentives to relocate from rural areas to urban areas. Censorship is their least concern. They are happ…

I lived in China for many years and you are right. Most Chinese people reaction will be "Meh.." and they will move on with their life and just use a VPN if they really really need WhatsApp. A lot of western people are now probably frantic to get the WeChat addresses of the Chinese people they only had on WhatsApp, so they can ensure their production line or development people are on track. We need them more than they…

I lived in China for 9 years and could never find a working VPN that would last more than a month. So I just didn't bother using anything outside of work. It was ironic that I worked for Microsoft, would use Bing at home, and used Google at work because...I could.

> We need them more than they need us. That is the problem.

Disagree. They still want our business, they will find ways to make it through the disruption. China is not ready to close itself from the rest of the world economically.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#363

Post by seanmcdirmid »

the_common_man wrote: post #328
mads wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in China for many years and you are right. Most Chinese people reaction will be "Meh.." and they will move on with their life and just use a VPN if they really really need WhatsApp. A lot of western people are now probably frantic to get the WeChat addresses of the Chinese people they only had on WhatsApp, so they can ensure their production line or development people are on track. We need them more than they…

> We need them more than they need us. That is the problem. Actually the problem is that the west has no higher moral ground than the east. Not a single US person here uses a chinese app or plans to use one. There is a reason for this.

There is no moral high ground period. People who talk about moral high ground are usually just insecure and/or looking to save face.

US people don't use Chinese apps because they are not competitive and solve problems that are China-specific. Heck, its just not US people, but Taiwan people, Hong Kong people, Singapore people, Japanese people, Korean people, Myanmar people, Cambodia people, etc...

There is a reason for this.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#364

Post by AmIFirstToThink »

chaostheory wrote: post #304
diminish wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Chinese start an economic and cultural expansion which includes PRing their culture, movies, tech, products and building special relationships with developing world in Asia, Africa, south American and Europe they may end up being the globalization leader.

As someone who is sometimes forced to watch media from the mainland due to family, unless censorship is relaxed - this isn't going to happen. Creativity is inhibited when you have the cost of wondering whether what you've written or what you'll say will land you in jail. This problem is multiplied 1000x if you work in anything related to media or art. Consequently mainland entertainment will always be safe and boring…

No innovation in entertainment means culture safety means prolonged rule of the party.

You are just confirming their logic.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#365

Post by pishpash »

taobility wrote: post #347
FabHK wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's way more powerful than WhatsApp, too (location based chats, payments, etc.). And, of course, it's not E2E encrypted; just the opposite, you can assume that it's being wiretapped/monitored. Thus, please don't install it.

I just wondering, for normal people, what kind of information you concerned to not be monitored, seriously? I knew most western take the privacy higher than anything. But for most normal people living outside of US, they really don't care. You would say they are dumb, but they care more about food, entertainment than the privacy, and liberal. To be honesty, nobody in China cared WhatsApp be blocked or not. As maybe 9…

Then why block it?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#366

Post by seanmcdirmid »

spullara wrote: post #244

We (the US) have to start treating the blocking of our internet applications as trade embargoes. They are the future of our economy.

China does not officially list the websites it blocks for this reason: they don't want to turn it into a WTO case. If you ask China telecom why Facebook isn't working, they'll say...must be Facebook's fault.

Anyways, the US probably doesn't care that much as we probably make more on trade with China (even American retail marks up China-sourced cheap items), that we don't find it worth rocking the boat over this. Also, by keeping out international services, Chinese services never face competition to become worldwide competitive, meaning they are basically leaving the rest of the world to established mainly-USA players.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#367

Post by AmIFirstToThink »

jacquesm wrote: post #295
diminish wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Chinese start an economic and cultural expansion which includes PRing their culture, movies, tech, products and building special relationships with developing world in Asia, Africa, south American and Europe they may end up being the globalization leader.

That is going to be tough. A whole generation of Chinese see the west as cool and to be emulated. I have a hard time seeing a whole generation of Europeans and Americans wanting to emulate the Chinese, Japan, maybe. China, not so much.

And that's supposed to offend them? how?

What makes you think Chinese are after making others follow them? I think they are pretty happy with the way things are now.

Do you think that's what we are after? Making others emulate us? That sounds racist to me.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#368

Post by losvedir »

dmix wrote: post #212
frandroid wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "China" in this case? Its government is the Communist Party. It's not going to abolish itself! The question to ask, if you want China to change, is to ask how would the Chinese Communist Party lose its grip on power. That would probably need to happen following an economic crisis. However, looking at how badly the Chavistas are driving Venezuela into the ground these days, and how much they're able to hold on…

> What is "China" in this case? Its government is the Communist Party. It's not going to abolish itself! I've read that something close to 1/3rd of the Chinese population is a member of the party or whose livelihood directly depends on it in some fashion where they are essentially a member. So this is a very good question.

If such a large proportion of the country is in the party, then... what's the problem? As I understand it, essentially any high performing college student can join the party, and then there's deal making and voting within the party. I wouldn't be surprised if there's different "factions" within the party, each fighting for control, or each who have a different vision for the future.

Isn't that just a different framing of the same basic setup in the U.S. where say 1/3 of the population is in the mid/upper class and debate about and set policy and direction for the country? We call our factions "parties" but other than naming things at different levels I'm not really sure I see much of a difference.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#369

Post by yeukhon »

pangfandang wrote: post #126
micaksica wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas. So in other words, the ruling class continues to rule, as they will be the only ones with the sanctioned political freedoms to study abroad, etc. > China's fate as being relegated to being the world's giant copy machine is sealed unless things revert China being the world's giant…

China is still very poor. The Chinese rural households have a per capita income of only 9,892 yuan – about $4 dollars a day. and there's 680 million of these rural households still. Chinese urban households have only a per capita income of 29,831 yuan – an abysmal $4,500 a year. https://geopoliticalfutures.com/china-is-still-really-poor/ And we see the effects of poverty on education: "Surveys by Rozelle's team have…

I am not worried about the poverty, I am more worried about the whole estate boom and it is on the edge of collapsing. Actually, there are ghost cities in China...those who got rich because they sold lands. They weren't rich because of their skills. This is a big problem to create a more balanced social classes based on income. A healthy economy cannot rely on just one or two specializationa (this is so evidence in Hong Kong, where nearly the captials were built on banking, investment and real estate; there is very little room for anything else to emerge). China has the same problem: major cities is populated with the professionals. In America at least every state has something to offer...

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#370

Post by nradov »

dv_dt wrote: post #260
nradov wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the initial round of product launches, most Japanese car companies started designing unique products for the US market. Many of the most popular "Japanese" cars in the US were designed and assembled in the US, and aren't even available for purchase in Japan. There are a few exceptions like the Prius, but overall the "Galapagos Island effect" is a good metaphor. It's a very isolated and unique market.

It's speculative how much of the Japanese company design/assemble in the US is from trying to serve the market more closely, and how much is from trying to align with current or potential US trade restrictions. I think one might argue that there is a similarity of motivation in the US preserving auto industry capability in-nation with China wanting to develop tech capability in-nation. The motivation is similar, but…

In terms of consumer preferences, the US and Chinese auto markets are actually pretty similar right now. Chinese buyers seem to want most of the same things as US buyers. Of course they're not exactly the same but more alike than Japan, Europe, Africa, or South America. Australia is also fairly similar to China and the US.

It's hard to predict the impact of potential trade restrictions and electrification requirements. The big multinational auto makers are pushing hard to harmonize rules around the globe, but populists and nationalists are pushing back.

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