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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#201

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yuncun wrote: post #18
rubenbe wrote: post #13

This is getting really strict. I went to China around 2012: * Facebook was already blocked * Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" * Gmail worked fine I returned in early 2017, oh god what a change: * Don't even think about Facebook * Ironically Facebook messenger worked until my session expired * No gmail, google at all (don't remember about Wikipedia) * Whatsapp worked fin…

>* Google and wikipedia magically stopped working when you searched for "tiananmen" Hmm I find this hard to believe because the massacre is known as the June Fourth Incident. "tiananmen" is the location, and blocking that would seem a bit strange for people trying to find directions, etc.

If you search for Tiananmen in Google, the first result is 6/4. Most westerners associate Tiananmen with the event more than the place.

Now if you search for Taylor Swift's most recent album, TS 1989, well, that's kind of blocked also. Not sure why :)

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#202

Post by majormajor »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #184
majormajor wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but stays integrated in the markets, as well as the academic exchanges. So if the strategy is have-our-cake-and-eat-it-too why does the rest of the world play along? Corporate greed outside the control of governmental entities? Like the parent and unlike the grandparent, I'm not convinced "openness" of the sort that fosters innov…

> So if the strategy is have-our-cake-and-eat-it-too why does the rest of the world play along? Corporate greed outside the control of governmental entities? Because having access to even a fraction of China's market is a huge boon to any company, as is having access to Chinese manufacturing. And playing along with China has made their society far more open and capitalistic, even if the ruling class occasionally atte…

Which sounds like the "corporate profit maximizing controlled at higher-than-governmental levels" explanation.

I think the argument in recent coverage like this is that it's no longer "has made their society far more open" but "HAD made their society far more open." And then it really exposes the financially-opportunistic, rather than principal-guided-as-advertised, nature of how the West deals with different countries like Cuba vs Iran vs China vs etc.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#203

Post by micaksica »

FabHK wrote: post #166
mattmurdog wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have an alternative it's called WeChat. Maybe other people should install that instead?

It's way more powerful than WhatsApp, too (location based chats, payments, etc.). And, of course, it's not E2E encrypted; just the opposite, you can assume that it's being wiretapped/monitored. Thus, please don't install it.

> you can assume that it's being wiretapped/monitored.

This can be assumed with any technology stack that is popular, domestically-grown, and well-established in China.

I have WeChat installed. Would I use it to converse with people outside of China? No. But casually, it's what's accepted there, what people ask you for, and what everyone's using.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#204

Post by mads »

creatrixcordis wrote: post #191

I visited China for a month and my view is limited, but i do not think the average Chen in China cares about this, just like the average John in America doesn't. They are happy to be able to grow their personal GDP as much as they can. A lot of people there are part of the waves of the population that are provided incentives to relocate from rural areas to urban areas. Censorship is their least concern. They are happ…

I lived in China for many years and you are right. Most Chinese people reaction will be "Meh.." and they will move on with their life and just use a VPN if they really really need WhatsApp.

A lot of western people are now probably frantic to get the WeChat addresses of the Chinese people they only had on WhatsApp, so they can ensure their production line or development people are on track.

We need them more than they need us. That is the problem.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#205

Post by micaksica »

bad_user wrote: post #116
micaksica wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas. So in other words, the ruling class continues to rule, as they will be the only ones with the sanctioned political freedoms to study abroad, etc. > China's fate as being relegated to being the world's giant copy machine is sealed unless things revert China being the world's giant…

China might build their own products and I can see them building WhatsApp alternatives, but I won't install Chinese alternatives to WhatsApp on my phone, which means the Chinese won't be able to talk with me, an European, all the while I'm communicating without issues with acquaintances from all over Europe and the U.S. This means that the Chinese are living in a bubble. This isn't news of course. But the other issue…

> their middle class are now sending their children to western schools and many of them will probably go back to China

I disagree with the "middle class" being the ones sending their children internationally. The Gini coefficient in China is higher than that of the United States. Even if it was the same income distribution, America's middle class cannot afford to send their children to private schooling in other countries.

These people are not the middle class -- they are quite far away in income away from the median of the income distribution, even in urban areas. They are the upper class. Maybe the lower upper class, but it's a stretch to say they are middle class.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#206

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Joking_Phantom wrote: post #89

WeChat is the replacement for WhatsApp, fully compliant with Chinese censorship controls. What's mildly disturbing is that many Chinese Americans, both American citizens and not, living in the US use WeChat. They use it because of their cultural and social ties with China. Chinese tourists as well have had increasingly better integration inside the US as well, which would only serve to spread the usage of WeChat to a…

The only users of WeChat have strong ties to China, and use it for those ties (e.g. WePay). Even in HK and Taiwan, WeChat is not used outside of those reasons.

WeChat working in the US is like UnionPay working in the US. Ya, its great if you are a Chinese tourist or an expat with a Chinese bank account, but it is irrelevant if you aren't, UnionPay isn't going to start taking over the American ATM card market.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#207

Post by chaostheory »

KGIII wrote: post #186
chaostheory wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China being the world's giant copy machine has worked very well for those in power in China. Why not sustain that as long as possible? Someone may correct me... 1. having a more open society results in more innovation, which results in more economic development which allows the ruling class to become even wealthier and more powerful globally 2. currently, only 18-20% of China is middle class. About 78% of China is…

This article has some very different numbers. Also, it may be a small percentage but the total number of individuals is huge. There's a lot of Chinese people, after all. Anyhow, link: https://chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/ As for the numbers in that link, I'm not sure of the validity. I see lots of different numbers quoted at different sites. I have to wonder if it is accurate. A couple even put their upper…

According to your article (unless I misread it) the lower class is 68% of the population. While it has greatly improved, there's still a huge gap

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#209

Post by nradov »

dv_dt wrote: post #182
Saad_M wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another alternative is that you may get a Galapagos island effect where Chinese firms do innovate, but their innovation is tied to the cultural and regulatory norms and not very applicable outside of China. The same effect was seen with Japanese cell phone companies pre-smartphone era.

But the effect was the complete opposite with Japanese car companies, which ended up being in massive competition with the US industry. (with ups and downs on both sides)

After the initial round of product launches, most Japanese car companies started designing unique products for the US market. Many of the most popular "Japanese" cars in the US were designed and assembled in the US, and aren't even available for purchase in Japan. There are a few exceptions like the Prius, but overall the "Galapagos Island effect" is a good metaphor. It's a very isolated and unique market.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#210

Post by School-Cotton »

micaksica wrote: post #205
bad_user wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China might build their own products and I can see them building WhatsApp alternatives, but I won't install Chinese alternatives to WhatsApp on my phone, which means the Chinese won't be able to talk with me, an European, all the while I'm communicating without issues with acquaintances from all over Europe and the U.S. This means that the Chinese are living in a bubble. This isn't news of course. But the other issue…

> their middle class are now sending their children to western schools and many of them will probably go back to China I disagree with the "middle class" being the ones sending their children internationally. The Gini coefficient in China is higher than that of the United States. Even if it was the same income distribution, America's middle class cannot afford to send their children to private schooling in other coun…

"Middle class", "upper class", etc. are not defined by percentiles. Otherwise it would mean nothing when we say a particular country has a "growing middle class".
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