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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#361

Post by foldr »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #236
jypepin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

> When you call cust sup in Europe, the service is way worst. People to try as hard to make the extra effort, etc. When you call customer support in the US, you get someone in India who barely speaks English. If you call customer support in the Netherlands you get a Dutch person because no one outside the Netherlands speaks Dutch. Also, due to better consumer protection laws the actual results are often way better to…

>When you call customer support in the US, you get someone in India who barely speaks English.

They usually speak excellent English in my experience. Holding a phone conversation in a second language is very difficult.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#362

Post by mrep »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #115
charlesdm wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shocking how average people accept the salaries they make and tax rates they pay.. smart people know better.

Indeed. Just think of the social safety net and universal healthcare we could have in the US if we taxed the highest marginal income rates appropriately. EDIT: And how much more holiday/vacation time we'd have if it was mandated at the federal level.

You do know that the US has one of the most progressive tax rates in the world right?

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#363

Post by exadeci »

ajmurmann wrote: post #32

I find it astonishing how positive Bloomberg tries to spin this: People earn a wider range of incomes in the U.S., so “workers have an incentive to try harder to move up the job ladder because a promotion is worth more,” said Dora Gicheva -The income range in the US is so large that there are lots of people at the bottom end who have to work multiple jobs. How much does that have to do with the longer work hours, Blo…

And if you look at productivity USA is not beaten by European countries that work less

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#364

Post by Oletros »

wil421 wrote: post #214
creshal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have more (paid) vacation and more public holidays and sick leave is both paid for and not counted towards the vacation budget, and more maternity/paternity leave, and some countries have extra leave for things like family funerals. It's not hard to "work less" like that.

I have all this things in the US. Sick leave is not counted in my vacation. Maternity leave is much longer than paternity. And is paid for in full at my company for a time. FMLA allows 12 weeks total but it can be unpaid. The main difference I've seen with the Europeans I work with is, they take big chunks off at a time in summer. They pay more taxes but have more time off. Most likely don't get full pay for Maternit…

At least in Spain, maternity is full paid by the state

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#365

Post by saiya-jin »

salmon30salmon wrote: post #223
patrickk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you call cust sup in Europe, the service is way worst. This varies dramatically within Europe. From personal experience, customer service is decent, polite and timely in the UK and Ireland, and generally awful in Germany. It's difficult to generalise across a continent with 700mil+ people (500+ mil in the EU), with enormous cultural variations and expectations of good service (much greater variations than in t…

There is a great variation in the United States. A country of 300 million people, where each state has a unique culture and identity. For some reason, "American" is often generalized to be a caricature that I, having lived in the Pacific Northwest my entire life, have never encountered.

have you ever actually traveled Europe? I mean really visited say 15 countries or more? It doesn't seem so. The diversity when comparing east to west, or north to south is striking.

I am not saying US is a monolithic culture all over, I've seen for example the difference (and lived for months) in LA vs small tourist/fishing place in Maine and quite a few places in between, but man... scale of differences in US is much, much lower compared to what we have here (indian reservations might add up a bit, but still - and those are just reminders of proper evil done by US not so long ago).

I've visited 5 continents and tens of countries, europe ain't my favorite place (that would be south east asia), but man we are way more diverse than anything I've ever seen or heard about considering size of this place (maybe one of the reasons EU will probably fail in long term)

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#366

Post by saiya-jin »

wott wrote: post #338
BadCookie wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is reasonable to expect a white-collar worker to work past 65, but how about a blue-collar worker or a laborer? Not everyone sits in a chair in front of a computer all day for their job.

Even for white-collar and computer people, intellectual abilities do degrade over time too. If the task is demanding in that respect and you go below the threshold where it cannot be compensated by experience, performance will drop dramatically to the point of not being able to accomplish the tasks in a reasonable way. Of course the degradation rate and acceleration depend highly on the individual. But you cannot ask…

Not sure why downvoted - there are people who stay mentally sharp until their 80s or 90s, and everybody keeps talking about them. These are rather exceptions. Most people suffer from slow mental decline, I could see it on my grandparents and their peers. That is, if you are still OK and not crippled physically or mentally by some accident/disease.

It seems that for most healthy, after 70 body goes down the drain too. I cannot imagine myself doing same software dev work at this age, all the bullsh*t and pressures that corporate jobs contain would make me leave on my own.

My plan is to retire earlier (60-61), not later! Enjoy the world, life and freedom of travel while there is still some strength in the body. I don't get why anybody would want to work more than necessary (unless your job is your hobby, but that is true for very few)

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#367

Post by barry-cotter »

antisthenes wrote: post #271
toomuchtodo wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Just think of the social safety net and universal healthcare we could have in the US if we taxed the highest marginal income rates appropriately. EDIT: And how much more holiday/vacation time we'd have if it was mandated at the federal level.

You need to tax wealth as well, not just income. Accumulated wealth is what results and continues the inequality, not incomes.

That will disincentivise investment and encourage consumption and emigration once you've made your pile.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#368

Post by saiya-jin »

antisthenes wrote: post #271
toomuchtodo wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Just think of the social safety net and universal healthcare we could have in the US if we taxed the highest marginal income rates appropriately. EDIT: And how much more holiday/vacation time we'd have if it was mandated at the federal level.

You need to tax wealth as well, not just income. Accumulated wealth is what results and continues the inequality, not incomes.

that's very socialist approach - excessive taxation on everything only gives rises to tax havens for wealthy ones. who would be targeted is not truly wealthy, but say upper middle class which isn't rich enough to use these kind of services, they are the ones spending most on services, which keep blue collar jobs, like it or not. This layer of citizens is necessary for healthy function of any society. If you strive to destroy them via excessive taxation (ie move them to low middle class over time), you are hurting economy in long run.

Don't forget truly rich have plenty of completely legal companies that advise them how to 'optimize' their taxes. Companies smarter and better equipped than your average lawmaker. I mean look at the presidential candidates - obviously both are doing it. Everybody rich is doing it.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#369

Post by saiya-jin »

wmccullough wrote: post #260
kasey_junk wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire. Have you ever actually worked on a farm? Its not fun either, its actual hard work. Most farmers don't retire either. The historical way this worked was as you got older your family helped more on the farm until one of them took over. You worked till yo…

So thanks for the lecture, but yes I actually have. I like communicating with people, so please don't patronize me as if I'm some child. Try actually having a dialog. Source: grew up on a farm. I have no desire to sit in a "cushy" job just because it is one. That lifestyle may be harder, but I strongly suspect I'd get to the end of my life with less regrets about the whole thing.

you have loan and big medical bills (ie bad health?) and you want to go to work on a farm doing backbreaking hard work? not a very smart move, but than again you don't describe the smartest software dev out there (you can easily retire earlier in this kind of job if you want and work a bit, if not you are doing something very wrong).

By all means if this is what you desire, go for it. It just doesn't seem like a smart move to many here, me included (but we have very few info, so whole picture might be different)

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#370

Post by saiya-jin »

wott wrote: post #343
smrtinsert wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of my european colleagues I'm always struck by a little jealousy. They enjoy an unbelievable quality life. They seem to be on vacation all the time and their cities are incredibly pleasant. The US has so far to go. There is no meaningful comparison that can be made by using currency.

> They enjoy an unbelievable quality life. They seem to be on vacation all the time and their cities are incredibly pleasant. Er... I think you accidentally dropped a bucket of green paint on the other side of the fence :-)

amount of vacation guaranteed by law is minimum 20/year, most have 25. in US this is considered as a special perk from what I heard. how about maternity leave, social support during unemployment, sickness and so on? Normal americans travel very little before retirement, they just don't have vacation for 2 or 3-week holidays every year, plus more for family visits, christmas etc. I travel consistently +-7 weeks per year, since I take my vacation when public holidays happen. Having 100% perm job. How common is this in US?

In France, you can have up to 10 weeks of paid vacation (that's a bit extreme, but they are western europe commies after all).

Not sure about pleasantness of the cities, each is different, but one feels generally safer here.

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