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How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

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Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#361

Post by lfowles »

joshribakoff wrote: post #341
newjersey wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a complete newbie so my perspective is inherently flawed but I am wary of installing anything on a Debian machine that I can't just get using aptitude (sudo apt-get install foo). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it possible to create a Debian repository server at Jet Brains that I can add to my aptitude sources list and then install Intelli J and stuff from the conventional command line interface? Why does Jet…

Not just that, but they've closed numerous bugs as "wont fix" & blamed them on the linux ecosystem. On Ubuntu, I've gone through some very annoying bugs like the IDE randomly freezing every 10-15m and needing to be restarted, even after removing openJDK & installing the official Java, and all the other annoying things they suggested. I dislike them as a company because they claimed to support Linux, took my money, an…

Funny, because neither Pycharm or CLion have randomly frozen for me in Linux. Sounds like they support Linux in my case!

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#362

Post by throwaway_xgqtr »

andrewstuart wrote: post #346

What an incredible whinge and whine. Why are people so resentful about paying money for their incredibly useful primarily development tool? Often while I'm using PyCharm I'm awed by how powerful it is and amazed that JetBrains has the resources, time, brainpower and money to write it. And that's not worth a few bucks? Sheesh. Seriously, it's a trivial amount of money and if you or your company can't afford it then yo…

Few, if any, people are complaining about paying money for the tool. I don't know where comments like this are coming from.

What I, and most, are complaining about is the fact that they are turning their offerings into "rental only" software (a disturbing trend in the industry).

I have no problems paying JetBrains, and I do, every year, even for duplicate product offerings whose functionality is included in the main IntelliJ product because I love them so much.

I have a problem with rental only software that will stop working the second I stop paying you. I will no longer be a JetBrains customer if they do not bring back a perpetual license offering, and I have told them so.

See my other comment [1] for why customers are allowed to complain.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10170759

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#363

Post by yazaddaruvala »

tobltobs wrote: post #343
qyv wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. This whole thread is people saying how great IntelliJ is, but damn them for changing their prices. I can't believe how short sighted people can be when confronted with even the smallest change. Jetbrains needs to make money both to stay in business and to continue to innovate with their products, that is a fact. Prices on things go up over time, why should software be excempt? Would it be better if they put in…

Most wouldn't mind a price hike. But the outlook that in a few years the tool I rely on for my projects will not work anymore is unacceptable for most developers.

> the tool I rely on

Then don't stop paying for it.

Meanwhile, its not like they are holding your data hostage. Apart from your customized settings in their IDE you can always access your project files with another IDE or editor.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#364

Post by rebootthesystem »

sgdread wrote: post #295
rebootthesystem wrote: post #259

They need to do a better job explaining the licenses. https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ I can't find anything that explains the difference between the individual vs. company/organization licenses. Are these still single-developer licenses? Why does a company have to pay twice as much as the individual license? That's just silly. I'll have my devs buy their own licenses and reimburse them. People are not stupid, you…

If you're reimbursing personal licenses, it's actually violation if EULA [1] [1] https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/200544871-5-Ca...

I am not. We already own permanent licenses for what we need and do not intend on moving to the monthly plan under current conditions.

I am simply pointing out people are not stupid. Doubling the monthly cost just because it is a business can't be justified and this is bound to lead to people gaming the system.

Again, pick a service, say, gardener, and have them charge you twice as much to mow exactly the same size lawn just because you are a business. What will happen is they'll be treated to a big "fuck you" and someone else will get the business.

Someone needs to tell me what they deliver to a business user that supports charging twice as much. There's certainly zero difference in the already questionable level of support, so, where is the justification?

To me that's bordering on being offensive.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#365

Post by balabaster »

moron4hire wrote: post #360
balabaster wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to a subscription model for 1 thing is okay, perhaps 2, or even 3. But with every company gradually moving to subscription models, it is emptying out our wallets every month and removing more and more of our income to maintain the status quo. From my own perspective, and I know this doesn't apply to all, but I cannot imagine I'm the only person with this viewpoint, I'm sick of other developers saying things li…

If you don't like it, take your ball and go home.

Mature

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#366

Post by ovulator »

HelloNurse wrote: post #290

The social cost of subscription-based offers can be enough to make users forfeit good products. If a developer convinces a manager to buy a perpetual license of IntelliJ, mission accomplished: the developer will be able to use IntelliJ forever. Persuading the manager to spend more on IntelliJ by making a convincing case that an upgrade is worth the money is an optional campaign, reserved for a favorable moment (e.g.…

I've used Eclipse for development at my current place of employment for years. I recently tried the JetBrains product and loved it, so I started pitching to my bosses that this will improve productivity blah blah blah. I can still do my job without it, and pitched it 2 months ago and have still not gotten approval (but haven't got said no to either) and it's a good year money wise, so the upfront cost is nothing to us. Now I would have to do this annually, even during down years? It's easier just to stick with Eclipse.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#367

Post by atonse »

mariusmg wrote: post #50
atonse wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so sure about that. JetBrains has excellent products. So, sure, people can flock to other tools, but they aren't necessarily better tools. I have gotten so used to using ReSharper, I'm probably 30% less productive without it.

I wonder how you actually got to that % number.....

I took the base 2 quotient of the Bear Claw Constant and divided by the number of Winter Solstices since the age of the Pharaohs. :)

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#368

Post by wonkaWonka »

andrewstuart wrote: post #346

What an incredible whinge and whine. Why are people so resentful about paying money for their incredibly useful primarily development tool? Often while I'm using PyCharm I'm awed by how powerful it is and amazed that JetBrains has the resources, time, brainpower and money to write it. And that's not worth a few bucks? Sheesh. Seriously, it's a trivial amount of money and if you or your company can't afford it then yo…

This isn't about paying money (we'll pay the money), this is about whether the software will just curl up and suddenly die on you, while you're on the hook to meet a deadline where minutes count.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#369

Post by s73v3r »

sangnoir wrote: post #293
dkhenry wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no $119 would buy him one year of updates, and he could choose not to update in the future if he didn't want to. If he chose to update on a regular basis, then he would still need to pay $119 every year

Also, under the new regime, the moment he stops paying, the IDE stops working. Previously, when you stop paying,you'd be left with a working-but-outdated version. This is definitely a downgrade

Do you have anything that says that's specifically what happens? Cause their FAQ says that when your subscription expires, you can continue using the last version that was released when your sub expired.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#370

Post by s73v3r »

toyg wrote: post #271
pasbesoin wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be you would stop getting updates but could still use the product at its frozen (for you) point. For example, to re-examine an old project (even if you might not want to do any fresh builds on an outdated platform). Can you still do that, or does the tool "die" for you altogether once you stop paying? P.S. Assuming underlying OS compatibility, which would probably eventually break unless e.g. also frozen i…

> does the tool "die" for you altogether once you stop paying? It dies. Or at least, this is what they have announced, obviously we will only be able to test from December.

Have they? Where have they said that?
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