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How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

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Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#341

Post by joshribakoff »

newjersey wrote: post #285
PaulHoule wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Eclipse has the Linux GUI curse. Linux users expect the GUI to be unusable so they split into the camps who (i) think Eclipse is the bee's knees or (ii) use vi. The difference between IntelliJ and Eclipse is like night and day -- Eclipse fans think the plug-in feature is great but install one too many plugins and your Eclipse will get sick with pluginitis.

I am a complete newbie so my perspective is inherently flawed but I am wary of installing anything on a Debian machine that I can't just get using aptitude (sudo apt-get install foo). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it possible to create a Debian repository server at Jet Brains that I can add to my aptitude sources list and then install Intelli J and stuff from the conventional command line interface? Why does Jet…

Not just that, but they've closed numerous bugs as "wont fix" & blamed them on the linux ecosystem. On Ubuntu, I've gone through some very annoying bugs like the IDE randomly freezing every 10-15m and needing to be restarted, even after removing openJDK & installing the official Java, and all the other annoying things they suggested.

I dislike them as a company because they claimed to support Linux, took my money, and then blamed my choice of OS when things broke. If they don't want to support linux, fine, but they shouldn't say that they do on the sales page, then act to the contrary.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#342

Post by logn »

rebootthesystem wrote: post #229
jordigh wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not pay them to do it for you and also keep the ability to do it yourself, should you ever need it?

Because I have exactly zero interest in deviating from what I should be focusing on (my business, my product, my clients, my revenue stream) to go dork around with a text/code editor. Doing so, in the context of a real working business with clients, projects, timelines, deadlines and deliverables would be irresponsible if you can simply pay a company for which that product IS their product and business to deliver wha…

> in the context of a real working business with clients, projects, timelines, deadlines and deliverables

Sounds like FOSS with a support contract would also be appropriate. They might sell you a warranty and indemnity too. Plus your business would have a much better disaster recovery plan if you're not reliant on DRM dev/build tools. Further, selling your business and/or productizing your internal tech can be simpler with FOSS.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#343

Post by tobltobs »

qyv wrote: post #318
steven2012 wrote: post #296

Frankly, I support this. We need to pay more for software, not less. The Freemium model is killing products because you can't make any money from writing programs anymore unless you get a huge homerun. People only want to pay $0.99 for a program that took months of man-hours to write. $5.99? Fuck it, that's too expensive! IntelliJ is magic to me. It's a wonderful piece of software, and I generally do not like Java. B…

This. This whole thread is people saying how great IntelliJ is, but damn them for changing their prices. I can't believe how short sighted people can be when confronted with even the smallest change. Jetbrains needs to make money both to stay in business and to continue to innovate with their products, that is a fact. Prices on things go up over time, why should software be excempt? Would it be better if they put in…

Most wouldn't mind a price hike. But the outlook that in a few years the tool I rely on for my projects will not work anymore is unacceptable for most developers.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#344

Post by [deleted] »

qyv wrote: post #318
steven2012 wrote: post #296

Frankly, I support this. We need to pay more for software, not less. The Freemium model is killing products because you can't make any money from writing programs anymore unless you get a huge homerun. People only want to pay $0.99 for a program that took months of man-hours to write. $5.99? Fuck it, that's too expensive! IntelliJ is magic to me. It's a wonderful piece of software, and I generally do not like Java. B…

This. This whole thread is people saying how great IntelliJ is, but damn them for changing their prices. I can't believe how short sighted people can be when confronted with even the smallest change. Jetbrains needs to make money both to stay in business and to continue to innovate with their products, that is a fact. Prices on things go up over time, why should software be excempt? Would it be better if they put in…

[deleted]

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#346

Post by andrewstuart »

What an incredible whinge and whine.

Why are people so resentful about paying money for their incredibly useful primarily development tool?

Often while I'm using PyCharm I'm awed by how powerful it is and amazed that JetBrains has the resources, time, brainpower and money to write it. And that's not worth a few bucks? Sheesh.

Seriously, it's a trivial amount of money and if you or your company can't afford it then you like this should go and use free alternatives.

Loving the tool enough to use it but hating on a company enough to declare it's lost all its customer loyalty makes my blood boil.

Also, how does this guy elevate himself to the all-knowing position to declare from his personal opinion how much customer loyalty JetBrains has actually lost?

I want the companies who make great software to make money and keep doing it.

This guy should just go use a different product that he doesn't have to pay for. It's not necessary to trash JetBrains on your way out the door.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#347

Post by tobltobs »

gfodor wrote: post #340

There sure is a lot of complaining in this thread. But guess what: JetBrains makes the best tools in town, and the new pricing model is totally reasonable (and even beneficial for many folks.) So, most people writing long screeds are just going to pony up and forget about it in a few months.

Basic risk management will forbid to just pony up.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#348

Post by wvenable »

steven2012 wrote: post #313
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Freemium model is killing products because you can't make any money from writing programs anymore unless you get a huge homerun. This isn't Freemium. This is the equivalent of Buy-To-Play. You are paying for the product. Paying quote a lot, in fact. And unlike an MMO, there's no servers to run, just possible bugfix updates.

If software developers expect to be paid well for their talents, the cost of software has to increase. And it's not just bugfix updates, it's new features and innovations.

If they expect to paid well; they should make software worth buying and price it properly. In the subscription model, they're still (likely) under-pricing but now they don't have to keep with features and innovations -- because if they do nothing, and you don't pay, you lose access to everything you had before.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#349

Post by gdulli »

Latty wrote: post #196
gdulli wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would it work another way? Because I shouldn't have to retroactively pay for a period I didn't use a product and the natural thing for me to assume was my status as a previous customer/license holder was what enabled me to an upgrade with the advertised "year's" worth of upgrades? Because that's how upgrade licenses work for other software products? (Windows/Office, other stuff I've used.) They can define a lic…

So you'd rather they packaged all the updates into big yearly versions you paid for all at once, rather than getting things as they are done? That sucks. If you still want updates as they come, either they are free if you own the version (in which case, you feel cheated if you buy a version then a new one comes out soon after), meaning people will avoid buying the product until the new version comes out. With the yea…

Is it crazy when Windows does it? I paid for Windows 7, I didn't want to get Windows 8 when it first came out. Later on Windows 8 was improved. I was eligible for upgrade pricing because I owned Windows 7. You can argue that this is too customer-friendly if you want, that's subjective. But you're acting like my expectation is unusual or unprecedented, which is wrong.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#350

Post by infecto »

andrewstuart wrote: post #346

What an incredible whinge and whine. Why are people so resentful about paying money for their incredibly useful primarily development tool? Often while I'm using PyCharm I'm awed by how powerful it is and amazed that JetBrains has the resources, time, brainpower and money to write it. And that's not worth a few bucks? Sheesh. Seriously, it's a trivial amount of money and if you or your company can't afford it then yo…

+1

I do not like the idea of paying a monthly fee BUT I do buy the license annually so its not a huge difference to me. If this keeps JetBrains in business its fine with me. This is such an insignificant cost for a tool that I use all day, every day.

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