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Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

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Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#351

Post by [deleted] »

chaostheory wrote: post #334
YZF wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The world of Google and Apple (Samsung and FOSS aren't even a player) is a world of closed computing platforms where people can't control their own devices and can't and don't code for them. More languages? I don't think so. How many languages can you use to write apps for your iPhone or Android device? Objective C and Java respectively and that's about it. With Google not only do you not control your apps/de…

> FOSS aren't even a player I strongly disagree. FOSS is a huge force for both backend development and front end web development. One can also argue that Android is mostly open. EDIT: The large majority of servers in the world are running on FOSS. I can also predict a large number of upcoming devices like the internet of things to be running on it. Whether or not they run Android is another story. The only reason FOS…

[deleted]

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#352

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

chaostheory wrote: post #334
YZF wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The world of Google and Apple (Samsung and FOSS aren't even a player) is a world of closed computing platforms where people can't control their own devices and can't and don't code for them. More languages? I don't think so. How many languages can you use to write apps for your iPhone or Android device? Objective C and Java respectively and that's about it. With Google not only do you not control your apps/de…

> FOSS aren't even a player I strongly disagree. FOSS is a huge force for both backend development and front end web development. One can also argue that Android is mostly open. EDIT: The large majority of servers in the world are running on FOSS. I can also predict a large number of upcoming devices like the internet of things to be running on it. Whether or not they run Android is another story. The only reason FOS…

Agree re development but whether Android is open depends where you are in the world and where you draw the lines on what constitutes Android.

In North America and Europe it's theoretically open but OEM's dependence on Google's services (which for many people are part and parcel of the Android experience) and the control Google exert through that means that there are real limitations on how open it is in reality. This week showed just how much freedom Samsung, the largest smartphone maker in the world, has to do what it wants with Android - almost none.

You can argue that that's not really Android, it's the services, but until there are solid FOSS alternatives to those services you can't use Android to put together a compelling smartphone without Google.

That may change over time but for now for a majority of people it's a relatively closed platform.

In China and much of Asia where Google services are either unavailable or less compelling it is far closer to open. OEMs use the OS, bundle what they want and ship it without Google knowing or controlling anything and that's maybe a third of Android shipments worldwide so not insignificant.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#353

Post by fleshweasel »

Microsoft needs a CEO who's willing to focus, and that means killing the stupid ideas and making hard decisions on what they're trying to be and what they aren't trying to be. Windows 7 and Xbox 360 were both relatively successful products. It seems to me that Windows 8, Xbox One and other recent products have suffered from a lack of focus.

They're trying to segment such that their phones run one OS and their tablets and laptops run another. This is a really bad premise for a lot of reasons. The right processor architectures for laptops are not the same as the right processor architectures for tablets and phones. Windows 8's interface that tries to cater simultaneously to touch and mouse input is a confusing mess for users. They've decided to kill foundational elements of the UI for reasons that are simply boneheaded. It's obvious that an OS focused on touch input and mobile processor architectures and an OS focused on mouse/keyboard input and desktop architectures is a much better strategy.

As far as I can tell, Ballmer was a nut whose principal qualification was being Gates's college roommate. Hopefully we'll see Microsoft become more competitive in the consumer space with this change.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#354

Post by shmerl »

gress wrote: post #350
shmerl wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's like saying that since there are powers with nuclear weapons we need more of them to keep them in check.

If you're going to use that analogy then I do think it's better to have more than one such power.

The problem is, this analogy is not precise. In patent wars it often doesn't work because there are privateers (NPE patent trolls) which have nothing to lose and MS and other patent aggressors readily employ them to do the dirty work for them in order to avoid retaliation. So, the mere existence of many big patent holders does nothing to prevent such threats, and especially for smaller players.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#355

Post by voltagex_ »

romanovcode wrote: post #285
_random_ wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect, Xamarin is currently the best option for multi-platform development and it has a good Visual Studio integration.

Just imagine how fast it would become popular if you could host MVC5/WebApi on Linux.

http://www.mono-project.com/Compatibility

MVC4 would be blocked by:

> MVC4 - Partial, no async features supported. > ASP.NET 4.5 Async Pipeline - Needs an parallel processing pipeline with async support, not done.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#356

Post by bad_user »

YZF wrote: post #273
taylodl wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? What good would a strong Microsoft provide us? What void would that fill? We've been there, done that and frankly, I don't care to go back. They abused their power when they had it and I have no intent of giving it back to them to give them another crack at it. No, I much prefer today's world of Google, Apple, Samsung and FOSS in all its myriad forms battling it out. There's more developer frameworks than ever a…

Really? The world of Google and Apple (Samsung and FOSS aren't even a player) is a world of closed computing platforms where people can't control their own devices and can't and don't code for them. More languages? I don't think so. How many languages can you use to write apps for your iPhone or Android device? Objective C and Java respectively and that's about it. With Google not only do you not control your apps/de…

Windows Phone 8 ... not open-source, doesn't have anything like CyanogenMod, cannot be forked, does not allow app installs from third-party sources, doesn't allow replacing Bing's search with anything else (and the available setting in IExplorer for setting the in-browser search provider doesn't work) and wifi tethering must be explicitly allowed by the mobile career (which is a PITA since my mobile career couldn't wire the settings so I'd have to take my phone to them).

That last point is one of the reasons for why I switched away from iOS to Android. I have yet to encounter an Android phone that doesn't do Wifi tethering because the mobile career says so. And my prior mobile career also had the nerve to ask me for an extra 4 EUR per month for wifi tethering. It's my device damn it and I feel that Windows Phone is a shitty iOS replacement, without the sexy.

> How many languages can you use to write apps for your iPhone or Android device? Objective C and Java respectively and that's about it.

For targeting iOS you can actually use Ruby [1], C# [2], Java [3]. Many iOS games are using Lua for scripting. Speaking of which, Unity 3D is a platform for building games and you can use Javascript, C#, Boo or UnityScript (a sort of ActionScript). The problem with iOS is that Apple had artificial restrictions that disallowed virtual machines, so bytecode and virtual machines were out. I think they lifted those restrictions, though iOS is what I call a defective by design platform.

On Android there are no limits. People build stuff with Java, because it's the least painful path and works fairly well. Games are still being built with C++. I have used Scala and it works well. Many people are also building apps with JRuby and Clojure ... though Dalvik is not as capable as a real JVM, so dynamic stuff has performance issues.

Even if you target the browser, you can compile C++ to asm.js and for replacing Javascript there are full-featured replacements available that use Javascript as bytecode - like Dart or ClojureScript.

> server side development which is in a sense a niche

Err, what? 99.9% of all software being built today is either server-side or has indispensable business logic that's handled server-side.

> [Linux, server-side] could have co-existed with Microsoft perfectly happily

You're probably too young to remember all the shit Microsoft did to prevent Linux and the web as a platform from happening. That's OK, you'll live and learn.

[1] http://www.rubymotion.com/

[2] https://xamarin.com/studio

[3] http://www.robovm.org/

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#357

Post by chaostheory »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #352
chaostheory wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FOSS aren't even a player I strongly disagree. FOSS is a huge force for both backend development and front end web development. One can also argue that Android is mostly open. EDIT: The large majority of servers in the world are running on FOSS. I can also predict a large number of upcoming devices like the internet of things to be running on it. Whether or not they run Android is another story. The only reason FOS…

Agree re development but whether Android is open depends where you are in the world and where you draw the lines on what constitutes Android. In North America and Europe it's theoretically open but OEM's dependence on Google's services (which for many people are part and parcel of the Android experience) and the control Google exert through that means that there are real limitations on how open it is in reality. This…

I don't disagree with anything that you're saying; I've already hinted at it with my previous post.

That said, yes Android isn't technically Android without Google services but it doesn't mean that stripped down it's still not useful. Just ask Amazon or one of the many companies in Asia that have forked it.

> until there are solid FOSS alternatives to those services you can't use Android to put together a compelling smartphone without Google.

You've made my argument in the same post.

> In China and much of Asia where Google services are either unavailable or less compelling it is far closer to open. OEMs use the OS, bundle what they want and ship it without Google knowing or controlling anything and that's maybe a third of Android shipments worldwide so not insignificant.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#358

Post by JeremyMorgan »

shmerl wrote: post #239
glhaynes wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never want to see a Microsoft monopoly over "desktop computing" (hah, what an aged term!) again, but I'd definitely like to see their talent get to assert itself further than it currently is able to. Microsoft started as a development tools company and they're still pretty damn good at it. I hope the next decade allows that group to flourish at the very least.

> Microsoft started as a development tools company and they're still pretty damn good at it. Why are they so behind in C++11 support in their tools then? I think they are falling behind in their tools advantages already. With emergence of OpenGL debugger from Valve that will only escalate (at least on the gaming scene).

Probably because of an escalated focus on C#, which is far more popular for developers using Visual Studio.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#359

Post by spiderPig »

rjbwork wrote: post #307

I'm really hoping this gives Scott Guthrie and Scott Hanselman a path up the MS corporate ladder. They're contributions to the .NET dev community cannot be understated.

I heard Scott is already pretty high up in the ladder and reports to Satya today. I hope he takes over Satya's position and heads the Cloud and developer efforts though.

Re: Satya Nadella – Microsoft's CEO

#360

Post by BlackDeath3 »

MartinCron wrote: post #313
lotso wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Zune is at the foundation of Microsoft's Metro design language.

Yeah, Zune was a market failure, but it was a really great product that was totally underrated.

I tried to buy one not long ago and was sad that they had been discontinued. I don't know if this is still the case today (or even relevant in the world of smartphones) but I could not for the life of me find an MP3 player with an FM tuner in it. But the Zune had one, did it not?
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