Looks to me like a PR disaster for SendGrid. Last thing I'd want is my brand to mixed up in gender politics.
The PyCon Incident
351–360 of 1001 posts
Re: The PyCon Incident
#352Earlier quoted context omitted.
BS. I'm getting sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their actions. Now I do agree with you somewhat. I doubt she saw this "joke" as an opportunity to screw someone over (at least I hope so. If she did, then all bets are off); but that doesn't excuse her wrong. Her actions caused this guy to be fired. She needs to own it. Apoligize, Offer amends and move on.
Note where you stop in the causal chain: with the woman. You could blame the millennia of sexism that set up the situation. You could blame the gender-imbalanced context: it's easy for humans to be insensitive to minority views. You could blame the guy's parents and teachers for not raising him right. You could blame the guy for saying something inappropriate. You could blame his friends for not reigning him in. You…
Standing up to a PC lynch mob is incredibly risky. I don't blame the boss, I blame the person who sent the mob.
From a recent wired article:
"The court of public opinion is an alternative system of justice. It’s very different from the traditional court system: This court is based on reputation, revenge, public shaming, and the whims of the crowd. Having a good story is more important than having the law on your side. Being a sympathetic underdog is more important than being fair. Facts matter, but there are no standards of accuracy. The speed of the internet exacerbates this; a good story spreads faster than a bunch of facts."
Re: The PyCon Incident
#353Wow, this is probably the first thread I've read on HN where the phase "Ok, what the heck just happened?" seems apropos. The cognitive dissonance of the actions and the outcomes and the timeline just boggles the mind.
The whole thing appears to be a CF. I don't think it is possible to learn anything from studying this incident, it is too tangled and wrought with distortion.
The only thing I can think of is the end of Burn After Reading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQQdSwFgSec
Re: The PyCon Incident
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, just to be clear, you are boycotting a company that employees someone who upholds the code of conduct agreed to by all attendees of pycon, but make no mention of the company that actually fired the guy. Gotcha.
It's a sane move if you want to discourage the culture that Adria is encouraging. Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though.
What culture is that?
* Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct? * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved? (http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop...)
Are we really arguing that people should keep silent when things like this happen? When a rule is violated? That they should only respond after it's taken place?
Is that what people are really asking for?
Re: The PyCon Incident
#355[deleted]
Re: The PyCon Incident
#356Earlier quoted context omitted.
as "a women in tech" (god i hate even saying it like that lol) i totally agree. i think what she did was absurd. It wasn't even a lewd or offensive joke. Maybe its my social group but something like that would even cause any of us (more women in tech) to even bat an eye. If it was bothersome in anyway it was they were so loud she was paying more attention to them and they private conversations and not the speaker. Sh…
But you really shouldn't have to make politically incorrect jokes and references to make yourself fit in because of your gender. People who feel like they can't be themselves around you because of your gender have other hangups that are unrelated to you. If they truly believe that they can't joke around women, that's a failing of social understanding. It doesn't really matter if the joke was lewd or offensive or if y…
whats your point? I wouldn't have to make politically incorrect jokes and references to make myself fit in if there wasn't a fear of offending me and losing their job put there by other women who call foul at the slightest indecency....
And that's the problem,anyone can be offended by anything. while i don't' find the jokes in question personally offensive, there are some things i do that no one could ever guess i would be offended by, and they are also rather silly. So when those things crop up, do i freak out and make a scene? no, i take responsibility for my own emotions and feelings and understand that we all have different values and (generally) mine aren't necessarily better then anyone elses.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please clarify if it is in fact the policy of the company you work at that employees should be "worrying about their job" based on the contents of their Twitter accounts. If so, please let me know so I can ensure that I never work with you.
I would generally agree with your point. I wouldn't want my company judging me based on photos they find of me on messing around with friends on Facebook. That would be pretty low. However, these are two different situations. It's different when she is a public face of SendGrid and her Twitter profile states "Developer Evangelist for @SendGrid". I'm not saying that this post merits her being fired for anything. I'm j…
A YouTube "partner" is an actual term in YouTube that basically means you have a special broadcaster account that shares ad revenue with you. Basically, she makes popular YouTube videos.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#358It was unacceptable that Adria indirectly got someone fired by their employer so lets demand a direct response from her employer?
This snapshot is from her employer's website.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, I am really puzzled as to why these "jokes" are supposed to be offensive to women. They might be offensive to people raised in some cultures / subcultures, and they don't sound like they're great jokes in any culture, but nobody ever told me about the meeting where women decided knob jokes were offensive. In fact a female friend texted me one about an hour ago.
Imagine this situation: You are walking down the street. It starts to rain, so you duck into the nearest business, a bar. You order a beer, and realize that you have stepped into a gay bar. The table behind you starts making jokes about how virgin anuses are the best. They are pretty big guys, leather daddies. You worry they're talking about you, about your anus. You worry. That feeling of discomfort? The way your he…
so, for those keeping score: misogyny = bad, homophobia = win!
Re: The PyCon Incident
#360I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…
>Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired.
I went back and looked at Adria's comment (conveniently not quoted), and you're completely misrepresenting the situation.
She didn't have a vendetta, she didn't try to get them fired. She simply asked that someone talk to them about the language which made her uncomfortable.
For all I know, they got fired because of how they responded to that situation -- is there any specific information about that?