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Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

blog.kilocode.ai

351–360 of 363 posts

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#351
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the people in this corner use compilers? Would they agree that programmers who don't use them* have been replaced by those that do? *: I'm aware of cases like the recent ffmpg assembly usage that gave a big performance boost. When talking about industrial trend lines, I'm OK with admitting 0.001% exceptions. (Apologies if it comes across as snarky or pat, but I honestly think the comparison is reasonable.)

When Fortran came out, I don't think a lot of people yelled at the assembly programmers and told them "learn Fortran or be replaced".

If the assembly programmers were struggling with correctly optimizing loops for optimal performance on several distinct target machines, I would hope that their management would want them to try this new Fortran thing and see how well it worked. (And it did, and it enabled new companies like CDC to win customers from IBM.)

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#352
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second sentence is revealing. The creation of the 787 didn’t make the 747 “trash”.

You also couldn't just unsubscribe from the 747 and get a 787 a the same price. Services are not the same thing as physical goods.

True, but the statement sort of implies that the models are intrinsically "trash" today, and we're just waiting for that to be revealed by the next relatively superior model.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that is how many photographers felt about digital cameras and photo editing software when it first came. Now very few professional photographers work without digital cameras and photo editing software (even if it is just to tweak some colors). Yes, you will still have some artists making money with purely analog cameras without any touch up but they are a tiny minority of the photographers getting paid for t…

> I'm sure that is how many photographers felt about digital cameras and photo editing software when it first came. And for a few decades at least it was true. The technology was shite compared to film photography for a long time. The same will probably be true for AI, as full developer replacement will require AGI.

Totally. I do think we're a long way from fully replacing developers. I do think at this point we are where you can enhance a developers work with an AI that can write code for that developer based on the instructions by the developer. But I don't think we're at a place where we can fully replace developers for any complicated application.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, the decision to launch was taken not by the astronauts risking their lives, but by NASA management, against the recommendation of Morton Thiokol's engineers. This was not simply an unfortunate "accident", but an entirely preventable gamble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Commission_Report#Flawe... > Loss itself drives innovation and resolve True, but did NASA in 1986 really need to learn this less…

Two different incidents. The parent was talking about Apollo 1, not Challenger.

Ah, yes, You are correct.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why they don’t sell it as “unlimited.” The gripe isn’t that there are limits, it’s that it’s sold as “unlimited” but there are limits.

Which to any reasonable person (and it's on the fine print) should mean reasonable limits But I guess some people do really need "Eggs: contain eggs" in their egg carton otherwise they will throw a legal fit

Right, it’s our fault for not understanding their lies.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#357
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My credit card web portal has a section for reversing transactions without having to call anyone. Maybe yours does too?

Reversing transactions is not cancelling the service I believe? As long as you don't cancel, you do owe them money. But if they make cancelling intentionally hard, one would likely have a good case in court to still not pay, if one would want to go to court over this.

Document the failed unsub process so if they bother to sue you then you win:)

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#358
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not intended to be uncharitable - You clearly value many things I do (the world needs less attention-seeking, energy greedy shitty software). I don't know how else one gets information and forms an opinion on the technology except for media consumption or hands-on experience. Note that I count "social media" as media. My proposition is that without hands-on experience, your information is limited to media narrat…

> I don't know how else one gets information and forms an opinion on the technology except for media consumption or hands-on experience. Okay, I think I got your intent better, thanks for clarifying. You can add discussion with other people outside software media, or opinion pieces outside media (I would not include personal blogs in "media" for instance, but would not be bothered if someone did), including people wh…

My point on the initial discussion remains, but I think that it also seems like we disagree on the foundations/premise of the technology.

The actions of a few companies does not invalidate the entire category. There are open models, trained on previously aggregated datasets (which, for what its worth, nobody had a problem with being collected a decade ago!), doing research to make training and usage more efficient.

The technology is here. I think your assessment on its relevance is not informed by actual usage, your frame of its origins is black/white (rather than understanding the actual landscape of different model approaches), and that your lack of interest in using it does nothing to change the absolutely massive shift that is happening in the nature of work. I'm a Product Manager, and the Senior Engineer I work with has been reviewing my PRs before they get merged - 60%+ were merged without much comment, and his bar is high. I did half of our last release, while also doing my day job. Safe to say, his opinion has changed based on that.

Were they massive changes? No. But these are absolutely impactful in the decision calculus that goes into what it takes to build and maintain software.

The premise of my argument is that what you see as "fatal flaws" are an illusion created by bias (which bleeds into the second-hand perspectives you cite just as readily as it does the media), rather than your direct and actual validation that those flaws exist.

My suggestion is to be an objective scientist -- use the best model released (regardless of origins) with minor research into 'best practices' to see what is possible, and then ask yourself if the 'origins' issue were addressed by a responsible open-source player in 6-12 months, whether it would change anything about your views on the likely impact of this technology and your willingness to adopt it.

I believe that it's coming, not because the hype machine tells me so (and it's WAY hyped) - But because I've used it, seen its flaws and strengths, and forecast how quickly it will change the work that I've been doing for over a decade even if it stopped getting better (and it hasn't stopped yet)

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#359
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also couldn't just unsubscribe from the 747 and get a 787 a the same price. Services are not the same thing as physical goods.

True, but the statement sort of implies that the models are intrinsically "trash" today, and we're just waiting for that to be revealed by the next relatively superior model.

What I'm saying without any implications is that there's no point in locking yourself to a yearly contract when the field is moving fast.

You are also paying for a service with no clear SLA or measurable performance indicators. You have no way to determine if what you got at launch is as powerful as what you're getting now. It's all about feels

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#360
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