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A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

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Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#351

Post by viccis »

meiraleal wrote: post #310
viccis wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All effective unions are mandatory. They represent the interests of the mass of workers there, and they wield that collective power against two groups who would be happy to take food out of their mouths if they could get away with it: their employer and new employees who need a job enough that they are willing to work for less money or worse conditions. So if you want to join a company and enjoy the benefits that a u…

> So if you want to join a company and enjoy the benefits that a union has fought for without contributing to their continued push for better conditions, you are a parasite and their enemy, and they are justified in locking you out of that job via collective action. When this becomes the norm, the union stops working for the workers and work only for itself, its usefulness is gone and can be disbanded.

It has always been the norm. The only difference is that the way it used to work is that if you tried to undercut them by skipping out on fees or undercutting their members' salaries, then a couple guys had a sock party with you in the parking lot. Nowadays we have a lot of political machinery around organized labor to replace physical application of power with organizational application of power. Every now and then the union does indeed stop working for them, which is when things like wildcat strikes occur.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#352

Post by listenallyall »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #178
IncreasePosts wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most landlords don't accept partial rent if your salary isn't earning you enough.

Landlords are part of the problem though; due to landlords, property managers, investors, etc, the cost of housing / rent / owning a house has gone up, meaning that a job that would get you a decent apartment 20, 30 years ago is no longer enough. I'll accept that inflation is a fact of modern economies, but rent and the cost of housing has gone up faster than inflation, and income has not kept pace with inflation: th…

> the cost of housing / rent / owning a house has gone up

Not due to landlords, it's because the amount that people can pay for housing has increased -- higher wages, more multiple-earner households, easier credit, secondary income sources, investment gains. Plus there are more "households" competing for the limited number of available housing units.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#353

Post by viccis »

carlosjobim wrote: post #320
viccis wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All effective unions are mandatory. They represent the interests of the mass of workers there, and they wield that collective power against two groups who would be happy to take food out of their mouths if they could get away with it: their employer and new employees who need a job enough that they are willing to work for less money or worse conditions. So if you want to join a company and enjoy the benefits that a u…

When you're calling workers "parasites", you shouldn't be surprised if people dislike unions. In my experience the unions is just another layer of scammers stealing money from young workers after the employer and the government.

Organized labor does not exist to stoke the ego of people trying to harm their cause. They do much worse than call them "parasites", I promise lol. For example, ruining someone's career with a board complaint is extremely satisfying.

>In my experience

Really doubt this is significant, meh.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#354

Post by Flop7331 »

wholinator2 wrote: post #348
l3w3 wrote: post #340

I've searched 'Orwell' on this page with no results. Feel like someone should mention the first half of Down and Out in Paris and London. His first book about life as a 'plongeur' in twenties Paris is very memorable.

The comment just above yours for me is exactly this. A recommendation to read Orwell's Down and Out. Posted seemingly 1 minute before this post. Probablt not important but i thought it was interesting

I saw that too. Same thought at the same time. They should date.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#355

Post by CrazyStat »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #334
Twirrim wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All effective unions are mandatory. That's a very US centric view. Unions are ample powerful in other countries without requiring mandatory membership. Previous places I've worked in Europe it's not unusual to have multiple unions represented in a company, and even collaborating together on various negotiations. It wasn't unusual for employees to change unions based on what the union was or wasn't doing for them as…

> That's a very US centric view It is of course however it can be argued that the US is somewhat of a unique case here. To quote wikipedia (which itself is citing three other sources in this quote's case) > According to labor historians, the US has the most violent labor history of any industrialized nation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_St... So the US has a bit of a unique history here.…

> A less than fun example of this is that the organized labor holiday "May Day" is celebrated in many countries notably excluding the US.

Because the US already had Labor Day in September, which predates the May 1 celebration.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#356

Post by viccis »

Twirrim wrote: post #312
viccis wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All effective unions are mandatory. They represent the interests of the mass of workers there, and they wield that collective power against two groups who would be happy to take food out of their mouths if they could get away with it: their employer and new employees who need a job enough that they are willing to work for less money or worse conditions. So if you want to join a company and enjoy the benefits that a u…

>All effective unions are mandatory. That's a very US centric view. Unions are ample powerful in other countries without requiring mandatory membership. Previous places I've worked in Europe it's not unusual to have multiple unions represented in a company, and even collaborating together on various negotiations. It wasn't unusual for employees to change unions based on what the union was or wasn't doing for them as…

Non-Americans thinking their opinion on American politics is wanted or relevant will never stop being funny.

>I've joined unions in the past because of the access to all the other stuff that they can provide, like free legal support, representation in disciplinary situations etc, just as much as working conditions.

Apologies if English isn't your first language, but those things are "working conditions"

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#357

Post by surement »

Loudergood wrote: post #342
surement wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely under appreciated and under paid, but I learned a ton about working for a living. a lot of the discussion about wages ignores the value of experience; students pay to spend their days learning but it's somehow unfair for someone to get paid to learn job skills that transfer to other jobs

Experience doesn't put food on the table today.

neither does education, what's your point?

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#359

Post by 93po »

mlinhares wrote: post #335
Animats wrote: post #329

The robotic version: Nala Spotless: [1] It's a service - $3000/month includes hardware and support. [1] https://nalarobotics.com/spotless.html

3k a month plus what you have to pay to have someone babysit and feed it. this is wild.

I think in a very high cost of living country (Switzerland) this would be good economics if you trained your staff to put stuff in front of it as part of its workflow. I think this would work best if the robot was typically had an empty queue and you could just clear a table and place it directly in front of the robot and walk away.

There's lots of brief moments of downtime in a restaurant to do stuff like shuffle a tray or two over for the robot.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#360

Post by bko »

viccis wrote: post #242
bko wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the give-away that the union wasn't beneficial is that you were forced to join. If there is value add to parties, it would have to be voluntary. For instance, in financial industry, there is a certified financial analyst (CFA) designation that some choose to get. Employers normally pay those with a CFA higher wages and people sign up to get this certification and pay dues, all without anyone being forced…

All effective unions are mandatory. They represent the interests of the mass of workers there, and they wield that collective power against two groups who would be happy to take food out of their mouths if they could get away with it: their employer and new employees who need a job enough that they are willing to work for less money or worse conditions. So if you want to join a company and enjoy the benefits that a u…

> their employer and new employees who need a job enough that they are willing to work for less money or worse conditions.

What if I want to work for my employer but only for more money? Suppose I'm a rockstar and my employer agrees, but their hands are tied because they can't pay me more and have to instead pay off the pension funds of people that retired a decade ago and older employees

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