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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

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Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#351

Post by mc32 »

salawat wrote: post #263
mc32 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear ya. A landlady could very well find out someone is an Antivaxxer who lost their good job and took a lesser job and now has degraded credit and may deny the lease or may want bigger advance. What do you suppose is a better tool you have or would build which hides this person’s history but can vouch for their creditworthiness or lack of it?

>What do you suppose is a better tool you have or would build which hides this person’s history but can vouch for their creditworthiness or lack of it? I'm still lost on the part where we're stuck on having to be able to lookup a datastore managed by some private party in order to facilitate these arrangements? I have no interest in perpetuating the credit bureau system. If you're convinced that it's some priceless f…

I don't know how you can avoid discrimination. By nature of credit you have to discriminate the creditworthy form those who aren't credit worthy. On the other hand, sure, we don't need to know if someone voted for Biden or voted for Trump, is for vaccines or isn't for vaccines. You're still not providing a way for a creditor to make a judgement on someone's creditworthiness. A creditor, lacking that information may have to require advances or "security" payments which is more burdensome for the poor.

Looks at the how Japan handles apartment credit. It's a different system but in my estimation its a worse answer than Credit Bureaus are.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#352

Post by ncallaway »

xerox13ster wrote: post #30
ncallaway wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we...can we have at least one "not okay" option that doesn't brand everyone involved as evil?

If it's not okay, then everyone involved made a choice to be complicit in something that is "not okay". Willingly participating in harmful activities isn't evil?

The action is evil, but I don’t think that makes the person evil.

People are much more complex than a single choice.

Second, while I might think the action is “not okay”, they might be reasoning from different principles, or different evidence than I am. Maybe, instead of being complicit in something I view as “not okay”, they have valid reasons to think it’s “okay”.

I’m just not so willing to condemn every person with such a broad brush just because I disagree on this conclusion.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#353

Post by artificialLimbs »

aspenmayer wrote: post #166
artificialLimbs wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I only pay my bills on time does my credit score go up in the US? Asking because I don't know, but if that is the case, not sure why you can call it 'hoop jumping'. I don't care for the credit companies, they're total scum. But I'm not sure how to do anything better.

Try to build credit with a secured credit card and on a minimum wage. Decide which bills you have to pay late this pay period. After years of this, you’ll be lucky if you can convert to an unsecured credit card, let alone maintain your (low) credit score, let alone improve it. Most folks in US can’t even afford a $400 emergency expense. Good luck doing even that when your credit is maxed out and your car breaks down…

Why would I work for years at minimum wage? That doesn't seem like a good aim.

>> Most folks in US can’t even afford a $400 emergency expense.

It looks like they can, and fortunately the number of people in poverty continues to decline: https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american...

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#354

Post by artificialLimbs »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #63
artificialLimbs wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There doesn't seem to be any evidence that any of this data is going to be used to penalize people financially/economically for "social infractions" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

>>> In January 2014, James Comey, who at the time was the FBI director, told Fox News that its investigation had found no evidence so far warranting the filing of federal criminal charges in connection with the controversy, as it had not found any evidence of "enemy hunting", and that the investigation continued. On October 23, 2015, the Justice Department declared that no criminal charges would be filed.

Corrupt Comey, who shored up the ranks on the Steele dossier gaffe which is now bearing court cases, doesn't seem like the bastion of integrity that we should be assuming is performing in good faith.

Also, did you read anything else in the article?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#355

Post by artificialLimbs »

drunkpotato wrote: post #167
artificialLimbs wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There doesn't seem to be any evidence that any of this data is going to be used to penalize people financially/economically for "social infractions" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

The IRS did nothing wrong here, and it certainly is not an example of the IRS penalizing people for social infractions. As with any movement with lots of money and momentum and rapidly gaining popularity, there were a lot of fraudsters capitalizing on the Tea Party movement's name and engaging in shady tax dodging practices. The IRS was correct to subject them to increased scrutiny. In terms of the facts involved, th…

>> The IRS did nothing wrong here

Uhh, that's obviously debatable.

I was responding to a very specific claim. It does have to do with China's social credit score in that it is a slide down the slope toward implementing such nonsense in the US.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#356

Post by vel0city »

user3939382 wrote: post #350
math_and_stuff wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the figures from said article add up to EFF receiving a total of $478K from Facebook and Google over four calendar years (2015 through 2018). Of course I agree that these orgs shouldn't accept money from tech giants, but any critique should be done accurately with citations.

I don't think forum posts require citations, especially when they're correct. This isn't a peer-reviewed paper, it's a forum comment.

> especially when they're correct

But that's the thing, its not correct. You stated the EFF has accepted millions from Facebook and Google, as in multiple millions of dollars. $478k is significantly less than multiple millions. Its over a million dollars away from being correct.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#357

Post by boringg »

triactual wrote: post #122
boringg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with Sevastopol how is it even similar? I ask, honestly, if anyone else one here is seeing a large influx of intentionally skewing of what the US does and makes it comparable to some terrible policy that China does. It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China. Feels very much like the Russian disinformation campaigns as…

Yes, this is common in user comments on several otherwise intellectually useful sites. It almost always takes the form of a reasonable take followed by a comparison to China and an insinuation that the US version may be worse. The commenters have the same playbook to work from because the Russians wrote it in the mid 20th century.

Thank you - this is exactly what I was referring to. Reasonable take then moving into a comparison to China to bring China up to the same level as the US (or US down to the same level of China). Most individuals don't care or don't have the depth of knowledge to notice what is going on.

I've noticed a lot more recently - probably tied to the strong national spirit coming out of China these days.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#358

Post by EricE »

Overreach like this is how governments spin out of control.

I'm shocked and amazed by how much of this stuff more and more people are not only content to ignore, but defend!

9/11 opened more of a pandoras box than anyone could have ever imagined. Our concerns back then now seem quaint compared to the stuff that is going on right now with many of our government institutions :(

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#359

Post by boringg »

FpUser wrote: post #100
boringg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with Sevastopol how is it even similar? I ask, honestly, if anyone else one here is seeing a large influx of intentionally skewing of what the US does and makes it comparable to some terrible policy that China does. It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China. Feels very much like the Russian disinformation campaigns as…

>"It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China." What you say feels to me as Joseph McCarthy has just sprung back to life.

I don't think you actually know understand what happened in the Joseph McCarthy era but thanks for diluting the terrible nature of what Joseph McCarthy did by conflating it to my idle comment about the increased misinformation around China and US. Your comment feels disingenuous and honestly sounds like its part of the strong national Peoples Republic of China commentary that I was referring to that seems to be spreading around the internet.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#360

Post by boringg »

FpUser wrote: post #100
boringg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with Sevastopol how is it even similar? I ask, honestly, if anyone else one here is seeing a large influx of intentionally skewing of what the US does and makes it comparable to some terrible policy that China does. It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China. Feels very much like the Russian disinformation campaigns as…

>"It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China." What you say feels to me as Joseph McCarthy has just sprung back to life.

I do apologize I should have been specific in saying Peoples Republic of China to clarify that I meant the Government in control of China and not the people who live under their rule.
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