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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

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Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#121

Post by salawat »

mc32 wrote: post #99
mywittyname wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment might come off as an indictment of credit scores. But it really isn't. They absolutely solve the problem that you are pointing out. But they also serve to kind of solve a whole class of other problems around identifying behaviors that correlate with bad credit scores. For example, if you're a land lord who vehemently opposes divorce, it's possible to use a poor credit score as cover to deny renting to this…

Sure but previous to credit scores what was the option? References from friends and business acquaintances? Sure credit scores aren’t perfect but they are better than the legacy alternative.

...Excuse me? Is there a way that could be better rephrased?

What was the option for what? You're replying to a post about discriminating against a divorcee, but having the landlord hide it behind the justification of "bad credit".

Not to be the missing antecedent police, but are you referring to by 'ther option' the pre-existing excuse to paper over arbitrary discrimination, or to practice of lending/renting in general?

The answer is sadly important to the final assessment of meaning. I don't think you mean the former, but I figured I'd be daft and ask.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#122

Post by triactual »

boringg wrote: post #72
Sevastopol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

Agree with Sevastopol how is it even similar? I ask, honestly, if anyone else one here is seeing a large influx of intentionally skewing of what the US does and makes it comparable to some terrible policy that China does. It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China. Feels very much like the Russian disinformation campaigns as…

Yes, this is common in user comments on several otherwise intellectually useful sites. It almost always takes the form of a reasonable take followed by a comparison to China and an insinuation that the US version may be worse. The commenters have the same playbook to work from because the Russians wrote it in the mid 20th century.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#123

Post by closeparen »

nostromo wrote: post #8

We need a Supreme Court ruling or law that says if the government doesn’t have a warrant to collect your data, they also can’t buy it from third parties. We also need privacy protections so these companies wouldn’t exist in the first place.

Almost all investigative work is asking people to share information that they don’t legally have to.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#124

Post by edgyquant »

boringg wrote: post #72
Sevastopol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

Agree with Sevastopol how is it even similar? I ask, honestly, if anyone else one here is seeing a large influx of intentionally skewing of what the US does and makes it comparable to some terrible policy that China does. It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China. Feels very much like the Russian disinformation campaigns as…

Yes this is happening everywhere from Reddit to HN.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#125

Post by dylan604 »

xerox13ster wrote: post #30
ncallaway wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we...can we have at least one "not okay" option that doesn't brand everyone involved as evil?

If it's not okay, then everyone involved made a choice to be complicit in something that is "not okay". Willingly participating in harmful activities isn't evil?

Only if you do it while twirling a mustache.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#126

Post by edgyquant »

FpUser wrote: post #100
boringg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with Sevastopol how is it even similar? I ask, honestly, if anyone else one here is seeing a large influx of intentionally skewing of what the US does and makes it comparable to some terrible policy that China does. It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China. Feels very much like the Russian disinformation campaigns as…

>"It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China." What you say feels to me as Joseph McCarthy has just sprung back to life.

I feel like equating someone asking why pro-Chinese sentiment seems to be taking place with McCarthyism is dishonest and a quick way to shut down a legitimate question.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#127

Post by coralreef »

kelnos wrote: post #46
travoc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need more similarities? The mass data collection completes the system.

Because we need to understand the purpose of the data collection and what bad things might happen because of it. If Treasury is using this data to catch people who violate economic sanctions, ok. If the IRS is using this data to catch people who cheat on their taxes, ok. I don't love either of those things, but they are using the data only to do things that have been defined as their job to do for a long time now. Th…

The FBI needs file hashes of every photo on everyone's phone. It will help detect abusers of cp/illegal content.

It is the mandate of the FBI and their job for a long time now to stop those things.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that these hashes would be used to penalize people in other ways, but if there was then sure, that's cause for worry.

/parody

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#128

Post by yurishimo »

evancox100 wrote: post #49
michaelbrave wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit score can affect employment, I.E. you can't get hired because you are too poor.

Or rent an apartment/house in many cases

While this is true on a very shallow level, most landlords are happy to rent to "high risk" tenants with increased deposits if you talk to them directly instead of taking your initial rejection at face value.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#129

Post by edgyquant »

the-dude wrote: post #23
AlexandrB wrote: post #9

This is not a new take, but I think "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. It's just distributed among a range of private companies and accessed via subpoena or contract. The fact that the government doesn't operate most of it directly is largely irrelevant to those negatively affected by it and in some ways makes the situation worse (who do you even contact to correct inaccura…

First thing I was told when I arrived in the US in 2001 and was picked up by a friend from the airport : "If the police says pull over to the shoulder , stop at the side of the road". Second thing : "Credit score is really important".

Credit score isn’t that important really. I have terrible credit (low 600s) and I was able to finance a car and live in a nice apartment. It might make buying a house more expensive, but I’ve also been able to raise it from the low 500s in the last year.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#130

Post by throwawayboise »

avs733 wrote: post #94
travoc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need more similarities? The mass data collection completes the system.

Private corporations are collecting the data, the state is just buying it, and I doubt they are the only customer.

Yep. As has often been said, everything you do online is (or you should assume to be) public. There are no secrets.
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