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America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

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Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#351

Post by leetcrew »

DataWorker wrote: post #342
CodeMage wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Better access for US citizens to universities and healthcare will not be gained by importing ever cheaper highly skilled labor I believe I already stated that more immigration is not the solution, in my first comment in this thread. > especially labor that like you is here to take what they can, selfishly, before they jump ship. What's with the hostility and personal attacks? I'm paying the same taxes are everyone…

I’m not judging you. You came here because you had personal desires that, noble or not, were not fulfilled. And you will leave for that same reason. That seems like pretty common human behavior to me and so I make no judgements about your morals, but I will point out that a less selfish way of seeing the world might lead you to ask yourself how you can have a positive impact and make your new home a better place. Per…

> Perhaps that sense of personal responsibility is an American affectation

for all the talk of "liberal snowflakes", i do find that americans possess a decent amount of personal responsibility, insofar as they will take action to improve their own lives. as for improving their home country, i don't really see many americans doing much other than talk. the only people i see taking action in this way are members of marginalized groups working to improve things for their group and my white liberal friends taking selfies at protests.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#352

Post by lovich »

nimbius wrote: post #347

Theres a ton of talk about skilled immigrants and the american education system, and as a blue-collar automotive mechanic, I have no problem with immigrant doctors and engineers. Where I see the real problem is unskilled immigrants. Take for example a job posting I had up for more than 3 months. I needed a solid mid-level mechanic. oil/air/tires/suspension and electrical a plus. I dont want my apprentices doing this…

>They all want three times what I'm paying and health insurance

Is health insurance not something you give out? If that's common enough in the trades to be a complaint about employee desires, then no wonder no one goes into the trades. There is definitely a stigma attached to blue collar work, but part of that is it not paying. All I had to do was read a few tutorials online and a few years later and the only way I'd be making as much money in the trades is by owning my own business or in super specialized niches.

Why would anyone looking at a career pick the trades over that?

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#353

Post by john_moscow »

nimbius wrote: post #347

Theres a ton of talk about skilled immigrants and the american education system, and as a blue-collar automotive mechanic, I have no problem with immigrant doctors and engineers. Where I see the real problem is unskilled immigrants. Take for example a job posting I had up for more than 3 months. I needed a solid mid-level mechanic. oil/air/tires/suspension and electrical a plus. I dont want my apprentices doing this…

> But im frustrated at how Americans have turned trade jobs (plumbing, auto work, electricians, linemen, pipefitters, etc...) into some kind of field that no kid can ever enter lest they be disowned.

I think the main reason is that you can easily find an office job where you won't be doing much other than showing up and participating in the office politics, that pays comparably to the jobs you offer.

Your salary constraints are obviously dictated by supply/demand (i.e. what others agree to work for and what the customers agree to pay for the repairs), so it's not really your fault, but I see the same trend in many industries - plenty of bullshit jobs pay more (or comparable) to the "real" jobs.

Frankly speaking, it spooks the hell out of me because it reminds me of the last decades of USSR before the big crash happened.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#354

Post by fzeroracer »

nimbius wrote: post #347

Theres a ton of talk about skilled immigrants and the american education system, and as a blue-collar automotive mechanic, I have no problem with immigrant doctors and engineers. Where I see the real problem is unskilled immigrants. Take for example a job posting I had up for more than 3 months. I needed a solid mid-level mechanic. oil/air/tires/suspension and electrical a plus. I dont want my apprentices doing this…

If no one wants the job, then you're not paying enough or offering enough benefits. Period.

The fact that you name health insurance as a problem is a big enough warning sign.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#355

Post by leetcrew »

nixme wrote: post #297
jorblumesea wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the region and city, the US educational system has zero consistency across the nation. It also varies considerably by income, where rich school districts have educational standards above European levels, and where poor districts have standards on par with Latin America or even Africa. It's not that we don't produce educated people, it's we don't consistently produce educated people across the boa…

Carnegie Mellon is neither a state school nor what I would call affordable.

why wouldn't you call it affordable? CMU has a $72k sticker price (which only 30% of students actually pay in full) and has an average financial aid award of $44k. if your parents are actually destitute, you will pay very little. the elite universities in america do not cost much more than a typical state school if you are poor.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#356

Post by TomMckenny »

fzeroracer wrote: post #354
nimbius wrote: post #347

Theres a ton of talk about skilled immigrants and the american education system, and as a blue-collar automotive mechanic, I have no problem with immigrant doctors and engineers. Where I see the real problem is unskilled immigrants. Take for example a job posting I had up for more than 3 months. I needed a solid mid-level mechanic. oil/air/tires/suspension and electrical a plus. I dont want my apprentices doing this…

If no one wants the job, then you're not paying enough or offering enough benefits. Period. The fact that you name health insurance as a problem is a big enough warning sign.

Strange that the government acts with zealous intervention and unconventional ideas to solve worker "shortages" but does essentially nothing to solve extreme housing costs and shortages.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#357

Post by merpnderp »

thedaemon wrote: post #257

We could recover from needing skilled immigrants if we would educate our population for free like most of the world. We still only allow rich or lucky people to receive high level educations. How can we complain about skilled labor when we make no effort to create said skilled laborers?

Why would you think only rich or lucky people can go to college in the US? With grants and student loans pretty much anyone can go to college that wants to. And at my local state university, where tuition is a mere $5k/year, lower income kids make up over 90% of the student body.

Yet my area has a gross shortage of skilled trade labor. Want an electrician, prepare to wait 6 months. Need concrete poured at your house? Zero chance of getting a legitimate contractor, you'll be hiring someone doing it illegally. And you'd better treat your plumber like your best friend and not grouch when they pad the bill by a couple of hours.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#358

Post by toomanybeersies »

nimbius wrote: post #347

Theres a ton of talk about skilled immigrants and the american education system, and as a blue-collar automotive mechanic, I have no problem with immigrant doctors and engineers. Where I see the real problem is unskilled immigrants. Take for example a job posting I had up for more than 3 months. I needed a solid mid-level mechanic. oil/air/tires/suspension and electrical a plus. I dont want my apprentices doing this…

So you're complaining about unskilled immigrants applying for your job opening, and apart from being unqualified for the job, they apparently can't even legally work in the USA anyway.

What about if you had skilled immigrants applying for the job? Say, some qualified mechanics, whether from Germany or China or Mexico?

The problem with America's immigration system (from an outsiders perspective) is that skilled immigration visas (i.e. H1B) are only worthwhile for high skill white collar jobs, and in particular for larger companies who can be bothered with the visa lottery.

I see no reason why skilled immigration for lower paying, but still skilled jobs, like auto mechanics shouldn't be possible. In most developed countries, they run a points system. If you want to move here to Australia and become an electrician or any other high demand job, it's relatively easy as long as you have a qualification, good health, and can speak English, and I think that's the way it should be. Obviously long term you should be trying to train more mechanics, but that's a 5-10 year process, and doesn't fix the problem that you're facing right now with a lack of mechanics.

It sounds like you have a bigger problem than simply a lack of qualified candidates. Do you have any unqualified Americans applying for your job? How little are you offering that European backpackers (who in my experience will work for a pittance) are asking three times what you're offering?

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#359

Post by ryandrake »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #358
nimbius wrote: post #347

Theres a ton of talk about skilled immigrants and the american education system, and as a blue-collar automotive mechanic, I have no problem with immigrant doctors and engineers. Where I see the real problem is unskilled immigrants. Take for example a job posting I had up for more than 3 months. I needed a solid mid-level mechanic. oil/air/tires/suspension and electrical a plus. I dont want my apprentices doing this…

So you're complaining about unskilled immigrants applying for your job opening, and apart from being unqualified for the job, they apparently can't even legally work in the USA anyway. What about if you had skilled immigrants applying for the job? Say, some qualified mechanics, whether from Germany or China or Mexico? The problem with America's immigration system (from an outsiders perspective) is that skilled immigr…

> Do you have any unqualified Americans applying for your job? How little are you offering that European backpackers (who in my experience will work for a pittance) are asking three times what you're offering?

Bingo. I think you nailed OP’s problem right there. If you’re offering to pay in bananas, don’t be surprised when you get a line of monkeys out your door.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#360

Post by sid- »

I think we should have a world without borders and countries, only states. People should be able to live and work wherever they want to irrespective of where they are born. Most of the problems arise because we have divided the world into countries. This is really something the world needs rather than immigration reform
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