America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#251

Post by microcolonel » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:24 PM UTC

i_phish_cats wrote: post #247

CodeMage wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both of these would ensure that we can get smart and talented individuals from outside the US and would drastically improve the ability for the US to compete while continuing to provide broad-based wage increases. As an immigrant, I'm all for better and easier immigration system. As a parent of an 11 year old, I can tell you that what your country really needs is not more smart and talented immigrants, but better e…

Nice anecdote. Here's another theory: American kids are being priced out of universities with good CS programs because those universities have burdensome pension programs that can only be paid by importing international students with rich parents.

Don't go to university for CS.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#252

Post by HillaryBriss » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:25 PM UTC

firedrakerage wrote: post #11

I do not typically post, but these suggestions seem like genuine improvements to the existing system: "Kerr suggests allocating H-1Bs not by lottery as they are now, but by salary — the more that a company is willing to pay for a foreign worker, the quicker they can get a visa." "A second change would be to allow H-1B workers to apply for permanent residency green cards on their own, without having to be sponsored by…

> ...would drastically improve the ability for the US to compete...

of course "the US" is not a monolith. it's a collection of competing interests. big corporations, consumers, and the existing stock of US-based workers each claim to be "the US."

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#253

Post by 0xffff2 » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:27 PM UTC

50 wrote: post #221

QuercusMax wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, didn't realize this was a comedy site. Speaking from personal experience, the number of people with multiple years of experience and multiple degrees in CS (usually BS and MS) who can't pass FizzBuzz is really high .

Is the correct and most efficient way to solve it? #include using namespace std; int main() { for (int i = 1; i

Off the top of my head, you can do a single mod 15 for the first case. I'm sure there are other micro optimizations, but really being able to write exactly what you did is sufficient to move on to real questions that actually have something to do with the job you're interviewing for.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#254

Post by outworlder » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:28 PM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #196

outworlder wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: how big would the language barrier be? Not only at the workplace, but on mundane, day to day activities, for a family? When I was considering moving to Europe, I thought of Germany, but quickly dismissed, and then came to the conclusion that the Netherlands would be a better fit. But I'm not sure how accurate that assessment was.

It totally depends. If you are working and living in one of the big centers like Frankfurt, Munich, Berlin or Hamburg, chances are good that you find work in a company that accepts English-only speakers and usually you can live day-to-day life in English, too. But of course I have to say that you should try to learn the language if you want to stay in Germany longer than just a year or two, as this will open up even…

> But of course I have to say that you should try to learn the language if you want to stay in Germany longer than just a year or two

Of course. But being able to at least perform basic functions while also adapting to a new country is important(and it is overwhelming already without language issues). After a while, you're doing yourself a disservice by not learning the local language.

My aunt lived in Japan for close to two decades. She can't speak Japanese and knew barely enough to get by. She never really had to, as she's married to a native japanese, which doesn't help matters. But that's absolutely not the way to go.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#255

Post by thedaemon » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:28 PM UTC

slothtrop wrote: post #209

Hire graduates and train them, problem solved. Cheap immigrant labor is a case of employers having their cake and eating it too. The vast majority of these jobs aren't that challenging, hence the immigrants. They're mostly looking for monkeys, not 10x devs.

It's always lunacy to me when junior job positions require X amount of years experience. That's just not possible.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#256

Post by notyourday » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:30 PM UTC

jimjansen wrote: post #231

ransom1538 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wish it was reciprocated. I would like to work in Spain (no really). If I work in Spain, the US should open a spot for someone from Spain to work in the US. You want to hire someone from Turkey? No problem, find someone in the US to move to Turkey. You could allow companies to even grease the wheels, "Work from Turkey and get a 30k / year extra free bonus stipend!! yay!!"

That's lunacy. How many Americans can you find that want to work in Africa, or India or China? Its going to be a infinitesimally small fraction compared to the number of people from those regions that want to work here.

How much will it pay? Americans work in UAE and KSA where their life looks like it was plocked from a dystopian novel.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#257

Post by thedaemon » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

We could recover from needing skilled immigrants if we would educate our population for free like most of the world. We still only allow rich or lucky people to receive high level educations. How can we complain about skilled labor when we make no effort to create said skilled laborers?

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#258

Post by notyourday » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:34 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #33

firedrakerage wrote: post #11

I do not typically post, but these suggestions seem like genuine improvements to the existing system: "Kerr suggests allocating H-1Bs not by lottery as they are now, but by salary — the more that a company is willing to pay for a foreign worker, the quicker they can get a visa." "A second change would be to allow H-1B workers to apply for permanent residency green cards on their own, without having to be sponsored by…

The problem is that pay isn't uniform across skilled labor demand, and the purpose of the H1B program is to fulfill demand in the economy. If you set a quota and give to the highest bidder, you're going to see private sector executives and financial roles being filled in cities with high costs of living and competitive wages. Salary is a function not only of demand but also location and industry. This will discrimina…

> This will discriminate against rural and middle America by depriving them of the skilled labor that they need to survive.

Rural and middle America needs to get off its collective ass. I have seriously considered moving to one of those places -- alas, while I can get a house cheap and have what I need to survive inexpensively, I cannot get high speed internet even if I pay $1,000.00 per month.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#259

Post by HillaryBriss » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:35 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #67

Kephael wrote: post #7

The supply of technical workers is artificially limited by Leetcode style interviews. There doesn't seem to be an actual supply side limitation, especially not at the entry level.

Decades ago tech companies like IBM would hire entry-level software developers with zero coding experience based on the results of aptitude tests. Then they put the new employees through internal boot camps. There's no reason a similar approach couldn't work today. Employers just generally got lazy about workforce development while the economy was slower and they had an unlimited supply of applicants.

that's how I see it too.

I feel like the whole question here is simply: how much commitment to the existing US labor pool should US laws/regulations require from US employers?

Over the last decade, the answer has been "not much." But, now, because of political and economic realities, that answer might change.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#260

Post by curun1r » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:35 PM UTC

johnvanommen wrote: post #47

bduerst wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that pay isn't uniform across skilled labor demand, and the purpose of the H1B program is to fulfill demand in the economy. If you set a quota and give to the highest bidder, you're going to see private sector executives and financial roles being filled in cities with high costs of living and competitive wages. Salary is a function not only of demand but also location and industry. This will discrimina…

You could index it with cost of living. So an H1B in a California company would expect to see a higher salary than one in Kansas.

The easier way is to just have ratios. Companies that already employ lots of Americans should be able to easily hire foreigners. Companies that hire predominantly foreigners should have a difficult time getting more. A few rules to prevent gaming the system and you've got a system that works well for everyone involved and doesn't need CoL adjustments. Plus, ensuring that foreigners work closely with Americans helps both integrate those foreigners into American culture as well as helping them learn from those foreigners.

The H1-B system seems designed to allow big companies to exploit foreign labor to drive down wages and hold those foreigners hostage while they're here. Ratios better allow mobility of foreign workers and allow them to seek market rate salaries. If I were in control of immigration policies, I'd set a 3:1 American-to-foreigner ratio based on job classification/salary bands and make it apply to any company with more than 50 employees. Any immigrant who passes a DHS background check and can get an offer from an eligible company should be able to get a work permit, regardless of their home country, with no time limit when they'd be sent home. Only failing to find employment at an eligible employer within, say, 6 months should force someone to leave. And after a 5-year working period, they should be able to apply for citizenship. At worst, it becomes a jobs program that forces employers to employ American citizens to get the workers they need.