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U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

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Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#351

Post by jogundas »

tptacek wrote: post #64
ransom1538 wrote: post #22

"The defendants are charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and nine counts of wire fraud." WHY DO THIS. Each count of wire fraud is 20 years in prison [1]. If 9 counts are proven you are looking at a 180 years in prison. (life sentence). You are better off doing 2nd degree murder 3 times - at least it is a challenge to prove. Proving wire fraud sounds pretty simple - they just read a bunch of emai…

This is inaccurate in two ways. First, 20 years is the maximum guideline sentence available for wire fraud. The Federal Sentencing Guidelines has a points-like system (with points added for various attributes of the crime, like whether the accused took steps to conceal their crime, or crossed some dollar threshold) that heavily counts the prior criminal history of the accused. This is an egregious wire fraud case, bu…

Yahoo agrees, Elisabeth faces 20 years in jail https://finance.yahoo.com/news/theranos-founder-elizabeth-ho...

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#352

Post by cornholio »

dmfdmf wrote: post #332
sjg007 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Because you can't define pathology (deviation from a norm) without defining the norm. Modern psychologists dodge this question and implicitly assume various generally accepted moral standards and tenents (a form of circular reasoning) by which they condemn those who don't follow it. It is not science and to make it a science the psychologists should be seeking a rational basis to define ethics. Nobody has done this a…

In addition, it would also be supremely discriminating if the "Psychopath exam" would, for example, consistently score Asians lower.

That is, a psychological or culturally acquired trait should not be used against an individual without a proof that it actually affects his behavior. You are in essence denying that the person has any agency and it's utterly incapable of learning and acting on society's moral code, which I bet is false for the vast majority of people with sociopathic tendencies.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#353

Post by downandout »

mhneu wrote: post #238

Excellent news for American society. “The Chickenshit Club” by Eisinger recently explained why the lack of criminal charges had emboldened white collar crime. Basically, individuals need to have the risk of criminal charges if they do something very egregious - they need to have skin in the game. The US Justice Dept has in the past two decades largely only been fining corporations. And so companies estimate risk and…

For the record I have been predicting criminal charges in these threads for over a year now. You can’t make blatant misrepresentations that result in hundreds of millions of dollars being transferred to you without criminal charges eventually coming.

I don’t think she did it out personal greed (except perhaps greed for publicity) - I think she believed she would probably make the tech work and just never got there. But regardless of the reason, investors are out a ton of money as a direct result of material misrepresentations. You cannot “fake it ‘til you make it” at least where investors are concerned.

Because of the amount of money involved, these two defendants are looking at a stiff sentence. The federal sentencing guidelines would easily put them at the maximum (20 years), though they may get something like 10-12 years if they take a plea early in the process and don’t make prosecutors work too hard to prepare for trial. This will not be a Martha Stewart type of sentence.

It’s a sad day for everyone involved.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#355

Post by gaius »

paulddraper wrote: post #257
mhneu wrote: post #238

Excellent news for American society. “The Chickenshit Club” by Eisinger recently explained why the lack of criminal charges had emboldened white collar crime. Basically, individuals need to have the risk of criminal charges if they do something very egregious - they need to have skin in the game. The US Justice Dept has in the past two decades largely only been fining corporations. And so companies estimate risk and…

> the US can’t retrospectively prosecute bankers AFAIK there were poor decisions and bad investments but not straight up fraud. Nobody needed to be jailed; there were a few that needed to be allowed to fail.

poor decisions and bad investments but not straight up fraud

LIBOR rigging?

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#356

Post by asveikau »

zebnyc wrote: post #264
paulie_a wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake it until you make it is just a nice way of saying fraud. People that do that are being deceitful and should be publicly shamed and face criminal prosecution in some cases. They are scam artists, not honest entrepreneurs.

Are you going to say that to the founders of reddit & airbnb?

If the way you are going to talk to someone depends on how successful you think they are, you may be doing it wrong.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#357

Post by gaius »

yourapostasy wrote: post #232
icelancer wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The short answer is her Jobs-like "reality distortion field" -- she was exceedingly good at convincing non-scientists that their science worked. This confuses a lot of people (not saying you are one of them), but this is really common in intelligent non-experts. People vastly overestimate how intelligent they are when they place value on their intelligence; in other words, they like thinking they are smart. When t…

> ...they have false confidence about areas they have zero expertise in, purely because they feel they can figure it out. The antidote to this effect: pick any object around you, and set out to make it yourself from scratch. Or just set out to make the precursors. An object as prosaic as say, a window. A lot of people who suffer from this effect dismissively wave away such a challenge, saying in more words that it's…

An object as prosaic as say, a window

I think about this alot, starting from absolutely nothing I doubt I could even make a nail, let alone a screw, let alone a nut and bolt. I have no idea what iron ore looks like in the wild or where to find it. I could probably make charcoal and a furnace... if I had the tools, which I wouldn’t. It’s quite humbling.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#358

Post by [deleted] »

api wrote: post #143
atombender wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This interview with John Carreyrou [1], the Wall Street Journal journalist who is largely responsible for exposing Theranos, goes into a lot of detail. It's long, so if you want a shorter answer, jump to the question "What technology did Theranos actually develop?": Basically there were three iterations of the technology. The first one used microfluidics, which are basically the repurposing of the micro-fabrication t…

> The short answer is her Jobs-like "reality distortion field" -- she was exceedingly good at convincing ... Considering this and the lack of substance behind her claims, I would personally bet money that she is a clinical psychopath. The most disturbing thing I have ever observed about human beings is our tendency to follow psychopaths. Psychopaths seem to have this gravity around them and people just fall into line…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#359

Post by gaius »

whoisjuan wrote: post #34
balozi wrote: post #20

Wait, what?! Ramesh Balwani was Ms. Holmes's boyfriend? I don't recall seeing that covered anywhere else before.

Really? Wow, that's a weird couple...

I don’t want to excuse Holmes of her many crimes nor rob her of agency, but the circumstances in which they met do not reflect well on Balwani’s character.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#360

Post by gaius »

jason_slack wrote: post #293
hawkice wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because being popular doesn't make you above the law. The comment is at best irrelevant, at worse morally noxious.

But I asked why is she considered that way. I’m not saying she is special but why do people say she is the next Jobs.

but why do people say she is the next Jobs

Because she put considerable effort into fostering that impression, even dressing like Jobs in the same trademark black turtleneck sweaters he always wore. All part of the con.

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