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U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

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Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#61

The indictment shows "No bail, arrest warrants issued" [0]. She'll be sitting in a prison cell by tomorrow morning. Wow. [0] https://www.justice.gov/file/1072521/download

It does not show that.

Being familiar with the process, it looks like they're out on supervised release. Non-custody. No point in putting a warrant out for someone when they're at the courthouse to be arraigned.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#64

"The defendants are charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and nine counts of wire fraud." WHY DO THIS. Each count of wire fraud is 20 years in prison [1]. If 9 counts are proven you are looking at a 180 years in prison. (life sentence). You are better off doing 2nd degree murder 3 times - at least it is a challenge to prove. Proving wire fraud sounds pretty simple - they just read a bunch of emai…

This is inaccurate in two ways.

First, 20 years is the maximum guideline sentence available for wire fraud. The Federal Sentencing Guidelines has a points-like system (with points added for various attributes of the crime, like whether the accused took steps to conceal their crime, or crossed some dollar threshold) that heavily counts the prior criminal history of the accused. This is an egregious wire fraud case, but it's still a little unlikely that any one count will see the maximum sentence applied.

More importantly, the norm in federal sentencing is for similar charges to group, and for the longest of those counts to set the sentence. It is not the norm to serve (here) each of the "nine counts" consecutively.

Google [whale sushi sentence] for more details.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#65
post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

My suspicion: Holmes heard about microfluidics at school, misjudged its position in the hype cycle (it's a red ocean, not a blue ocean), sold herself as an expert, raised money from people who didn't know better, and let the success get to her head because at some point she would have hired actual experts and they would probably have tried to steer her away from the known-hard problem she was trying to tackle and towards prospects that weren't as high-tech-disruptive but at least had a fighting chance of actually working.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#66

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

Can you expand on your experience with indictments like this?

It rings true to me that, in general, the average person would have much more compassion for 'bad' people in 'bad' situations if they could live a day in their shoes.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#67

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

If only there were a way to avoid such an uncomfortable experience.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#68

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

Re: "putting my worst enemy through", I don't know, this doesn't sound as bad as growing up in a war zone or even the ghetto, or getting waterboarded. Sounds like bureaucratic hell, but that's not even close to how bad things can get.

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Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#69
post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

Holmes and Balwani had some experience with microfluidics (IIRC), which is certainly sufficient chemical background to give them a credible belief that they could do what they wanted to do (run blood tests on smaller sample sizes). The ultimate problem with their goal is that when you do a finger prick, a large fraction of the sample is not blood but interstitial fluid and skin layers, which makes the results noisy at best and irrelevant at worst.

So the original genesis of Theranos probably wasn't fraudulent, but when things didn't work out and they started faking it instead, that was outright fraud.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#70

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody.

It's basically like being free, but you have to stay out of trouble and report all contacts with law enforcement.

There's a small chance they'll have to go this route anyway, since the government can snatch the money

They're not going to have to serve consecutive 20-year terms for what they're accused of

Holmes will be offered, I'm guessing, about 6-9 months and a joint-and-several "money judgment" (restitution + forfeiture). Balwani, about 5 years and a joint-and-several "money judgment".

Take it from me: I wouldn't put my worst enemy through even just the trial.

Quite an interesting contrast between what privileged rich people have to worry about vs poor. Nearly every one of those points are solely because you have money, not merit-based. I guess this is when the world proves what really matters.

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