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U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

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Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#21

Post by maxxxxx »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

> It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect money but without even the faintest idea how to produce one In America, it's perfectly legal to say "I'm going to make an antimatter drive; give me a million dollars." It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter.

My question is: Did they have a prototype or at least a concept?

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#22

Post by ransom1538 »

"The defendants are charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and nine counts of wire fraud."

WHY DO THIS. Each count of wire fraud is 20 years in prison [1]. If 9 counts are proven you are looking at a 180 years in prison. (life sentence). You are better off doing 2nd degree murder 3 times - at least it is a challenge to prove. Proving wire fraud sounds pretty simple - they just read a bunch of emails and text messages in court. Everyone will turn nasty on each other due to the harsh penalties. Wire fraud = bad times. Just be honest with your investors.

[1] https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/wire-fraud.h...

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#23

Post by minimaxir »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #8
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

After the company launched professionals in the medical testing said it was impossible. I believe it was even posted to HN. They stated it was impossible to get the results they would get from the amount of blood given.

For reference, here's the very first HN submission about Theranos in 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#24

Post by JumpCrisscross »

maxxxxx wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect money but without even the faintest idea how to produce one In America, it's perfectly legal to say "I'm going to make an antimatter drive; give me a million dollars." It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter.

My question is: Did they have a prototype or at least a concept?

> Did they have a prototype or at least a concept?

Not one that could do what they promised.

"The indictment alleges that the defendants used a combination of direct communications, marketing materials, statements to the media, financial statements, models, and other information to defraud potential investors. Specifically, the defendants claimed that Theranos developed a revolutionary and proprietary analyzer that the defendants referred to by various names, including as the TSPU, Edison, or minilab. The defendants claimed the analyzer was able to perform a full range of clinical tests using small blood samples drawn from a finger stick. The defendants also represented that the analyzer could produce results that were more accurate and reliable than those yielded by conventional methods—all at a faster speed than previously possible.

The indictment further alleges that Holmes and Balwani knew that many of their representations about the analyzer were false. For example, allegedly, Holmes and Balwani knew that the analyzer, in truth, had accuracy and reliability problems, performed a limited number of tests, was slower than some competing devices, and, in some respects, could not compete with existing, more conventional machines."

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/theranos-founder-and-fo...

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#26

Post by code777777 »

> "The indictment further alleges that Holmes and Balwani knew that many of their representations about the analyzer were false. For example, allegedly, Holmes and Balwani knew that the analyzer, in truth, had accuracy and reliability problems, performed a limited number of tests, was slower than some competing devices, and, in some respects, could not compete with existing, more conventional machines."

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#27

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ransom1538 wrote: post #22

"The defendants are charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and nine counts of wire fraud." WHY DO THIS. Each count of wire fraud is 20 years in prison [1]. If 9 counts are proven you are looking at a 180 years in prison. (life sentence). You are better off doing 2nd degree murder 3 times - at least it is a challenge to prove. Proving wire fraud sounds pretty simple - they just read a bunch of emai…

> WHY DO THIS

They don't think they will get caught. For a live example, see HN's cryptocurrency threads. A common theme is talk about faking KYC or laundering money or how their scam is too small to garner federal attention.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#28

Post by pm90 »

aphextron wrote: post #14

Between this and Manafort being sent to jail, what a wonderful day for the DOJ. God I love this country so much.

The American Criminal Justice system rightly faces many criticisms, especially serious charges for being used against minorities. But yes, knowing that even the most powerful person in the country is not above the law and can and is prosecuted seriously, and that scammers like Holmes and Balwani are made to pay for their crimes.... this kind of thing is certainly what makes the US unique among nations.
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