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Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

dev.windows.com

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Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#341

Post by yellowapple »

bohol wrote: post #141
ekianjo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, while nostalgic, the Commodore and Atari scene were tiny in comparison You know, when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about, the wise decision is just not to answer. Both the Commodore and Atari scenes were way bigger than the PC's in the mid 80s till the early 90s. Ask any demoparty goer if you don't believe me.

I'm not talking about pre-90s and I've been to many demoparties. Do you want to refute that the PC demoscene have had a huge impact on the modern games industry? Because if you read my original comment, that is my point. Oh, and maybe you should read the site guidelines, second paragraph under "In Comments". https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> I'm not talking about pre-90s

And that's where your problem lies, since the pre-90s era is far more important historically than the post-90s era (when the idea of a "demoscene" started to die entirely and game development shifted full-force toward massive companies - trends which have only recently begun to reverse beyond very tiny niches).

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#342

Post by yellowapple »

ntakasaki wrote: post #251
chernevik wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I was setting up Crouton on my 11 year old daughter's Chromebook. She wants to learn to program, she says, so I said, great, let's get you a real programming environment. She was nervous about her computer and all the stuff flying by on the screen, so we talked about what her computer is -- a CPU, memory, storage -- it's all bits, nothing happening here can hurt it. We then got Python up and drew a turn wit…

>Yesterday I was setting up Crouton on my 11 year old daughter's Chromebook Yet you decided to buy her a Chromebook, which is the most locked down laptop out there with heavy DRM with everything locked to Google's services and only Google code being allowed to run natively. Even Windows is much more open in comparison and doesn't wipe the hard disk when you try to install an alternate OS. Nor do you have to "root" it…

I think you're confusing Chromebooks for Android devices; running non-Google operating systems on Chromebooks is very-well-documented.

I think you're also missing the parent commenter's point: that even on ChromeOS (via Crouton), his daughter's newly-learned skills will be much more universally-applicable, since she's working directly with free development tools available universally and on virtually all modern platforms (plus Windows) instead of working with toolchains specific to only one not-really-all-that-modern platform.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#343

Post by yellowapple »

pjmlp wrote: post #311
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, if you want to game, windows seems like a more convenient choice, nobody disputes that. Gaben is closing that gap for us. Also, Minecraft runs fine on Linux. If GP poster had trouble, it's probably down to a video driver issue (which aren't unique to Linux, but are arguably more painful), or a new-environment-learning-curve thing.

I don't think Valve will doing for longer time if the studios don't care.

Sure they will. You wouldn't believe how many new games Steam is trying to throw at me on Linux.

The big studios might not care too much (though even this isn't really universal, since there are plenty of big studios that do target Linux/SteamOS), but there's a lot of activity from indie developers, many of whom are targeting SteamOS before they even target OS X (though there still aren't any SteamOS exclusives that I know of).

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#344

Post by yellowapple »

pjmlp wrote: post #310
nkuttler wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems to me Windows is a perfectly open enough OS to act as a platform for tinkering and learning about computers. Maybe, but Linux just seems more convenient. I mean, can you install gcc, golang, nodejs, python, ruby, ghc, lua (...) on windows with a single command? And all the other tools you might want to use, like editors, databases? And you will never know if they want to do kernel-level coding if they don't h…

Try that in Slackware. Not all distributions have apt-get.

    sbopkg -i "node google-go-lang ghc ..."
Granted, you have to install sbopkg, but it's still not that hard. And most of those tools (GCC, Ruby, etc., even Emacs!) already ship with Slackware anyway, so it's arguably easier than most GNU/Linux distros.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#345

Post by yellowapple »

slantyyz wrote: post #212
zanny wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the teacher on Windows by design cannot teach a huge chunk of the stack that makes a computer a computer. They talk about hardware, maybe a bit about the ToS breaking NT source floating around this comment section, skip over everything else and land on this theme park island of C# standard library and Windows forms. It leaves a huge gap in the childs education on computing that is one the major reasons so many…

>> Except the teacher on Windows by design cannot teach a huge chunk of the stack that makes a computer a computer. Is this really necessary for most kids? My view might be skewed because I grew up in the 80s, but everything I learned back then were things like Basic, COBOL, Fortran and Pascal. One of my high school classes did some assembly language on the Apple II, but I'm not sure most of the people in my class wa…

> but everything I learned back then were things like Basic, COBOL, Fortran and Pascal.

Think about what you had back then, though. At best, you had Mac OS (which was as abstracted away from actual computer internals as Windows is today). All the other options - whether it was Commodores or Ataris or DOS-based IBM-compatibles - involved working very close to the hardware. You were manually dealing with interrupts and memory access and other very-low-level components.

Basically, the reason why you didn't have to delve very far into the underlying system was because there wasn't an underlying system in the first place for you to delve into. COBOL and Pascal were pretty high-level, but BASIC and Fortran are along the same lines as C (especially back then): very low-level, very directly-wired-to-hardware, very thin abstractions over raw assembly. You were already delving into way more than students today would ever be able to delve into on a Windows-NT-based operating system (where you don't even have DOS internals to muck around with, unlike on Windows 3.x and 9x - which is what I personally grew up on).

Yeah, students might be able to get by on a bit of HTML and Javascript and maybe Ruby or Python, but I would be lying if I claimed that such an education would be as in-depth and worthwhile as what your or I experienced pre-2000.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#346

Post by yellowapple »

watty wrote: post #62
anilgulecha wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was answered. It's bad because teachers would push for a platform they presumably know more about -- Windows.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Kids will be more productive on Windows and more likely be able to take those skills with them. How many kids need to know linux in the future? Here's what the Linux trend looks like: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=linux

> How many kids need to know linux in the future?

All of them, if they want any hope of having a programming or system administration job (i.e. the non-executive IT jobs that pay pretty darn well) in the foreseeable future. Linux is what powers the vast majority of web servers nowadays, regardless of whether they're being run by plucky startups or long-tenured industry incumbents. Windows in the server world has effectively been relegated to legacy systems and a smattering of government websites (some of which in and of themselves also count as "legacy systems"), and that market is continuously shrinking as businesses modernize in methodology and technology.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#347

Post by yellowapple »

freehunter wrote: post #312
dandelion_lover wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a teacher only knows DOS, he/she should teach DOS? ;)

I didn't say "should only teach". If your (obvious facetious, I know that) argument actually followed mine, it would say "A teacher only knows DOS, they would be most effective at teaching DOS". Which is true.

The point, though, of the parent commenter was that just because a teacher can teach something "effectively" doesn't mean that something should be taught in the first place.

There are plenty of teachers throughout the United States who are effective at teaching creationism to their students. I think we can all agree that doing so is not healthy for those students.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#348

Post by yellowapple »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #197
microtonal wrote: post #37

I am usually not the one to blow the free software horn (being a staunch believer of non-copyleft licenses such as the Apache License) and the geek in me likes this announcement. I also don't hold a grudge against Windows, I think it is a fine system for most people. However, Windows seems very much contrary to the goal of the Raspberry Pi: providing a device for children to tinker with and educate themselves. Althou…

Or it makes tinkering easier and simpler than ever. Linux is many things. User friendly is not one of them.

TIL it's still 2005.

Seriously. This whole "Linux is not user friendly" myth has been a myth for almost a decade now. I've seen 70-year-olds with zero understanding of technology whatsoever use GNU/Linux (openSUSE, specifically) without problem. Let that sink in for a second.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#349

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

pjmlp wrote: post #311
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, if you want to game, windows seems like a more convenient choice, nobody disputes that. Gaben is closing that gap for us. Also, Minecraft runs fine on Linux. If GP poster had trouble, it's probably down to a video driver issue (which aren't unique to Linux, but are arguably more painful), or a new-environment-learning-curve thing.

I don't think Valve will doing for longer time if the studios don't care.

I think that Valve has bet the farm on Linux. Gaben seems to think that Microsoft might build their own game marketplace and use it to push Valve out.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#350

Post by nwp90 »

mark-r wrote: post #269
orbitingpluto wrote: post #236

I have been using the Windows 10 preview to play around with Powershell 5. Up until the 9926 build it was a big improvement. The 9926 build is the first I've noticed that the started Windows 7 "Search Program and Files" has been replaced with "Search the computer and web". Apparently you can't turn it off. I could not find a group policy or regedit tweak to turn it off. A Microsoft support article said you cannot, pe…

Argh! It's bad enough that the Help systems do this. If I'm going to Help, I want help the program I installed on my computer and I want it fast - don't search the entire internet for something that should be instantly available already. I really hate to see this philosophy extending to everything. I already know how to use Google to search the web.

I noticed libreoffice doing this yesterday. Very disappointing.
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