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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#341

Post by denton-scratch »

ljm wrote: post #143
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I would contest one point in the article, and I admit this is dependent on where you live: > But social media is very different because it transforms social life for everyone, even for those who don’t use social media, whereas sugar consumption just harms the consumer. In countries with single-payer healthcare (or socialised healthcare), it's not true that it harms only the consumer. If it turns into obesity, diabete…

> In countries with single-payer healthcare (or socialised healthcare), it's not true that it harms only the consumer.

This is a fallacy. Public health measures benefit some individuals more than others; but everyone benefits. Free treatment catches TB infections, for example, which occur overwhelmingly among homeless people. We're all better off if there are no homeless people wandering around with TB.

I'm glad my neighbours all benefit from the NHS, and that I'm not surrounded by sick people.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#342

Post by eastbound »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #252
eastbound wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by finding other ways to be valued as human beings. Before absconding boys from harm, maybe we should check twice on their health. They are often forgotten or their difficulties brushed off in studies. How are addictions progressing? Obesity maybe? Why are they all on 9Gag? Let’s check their level of racism and misogyny, it might be a pro…

I think this might be whataboutism. It’s clear to me the original poster was speaking exclusively on the social media aspect and the fact that social media does not have a similar causal effect of mental illness specifically on boys, and so I don’t know how addiction/obesity/etc contribute here. I agree there may be other effects on men, but it seems very clear here that the original poster was talking about social m…

We should not accept topics which de facto exclude men.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#343

Post by bazmattaz »

giantg2 wrote: post #44
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

They wouldn't be out of the loop if enough other girls did the same thing. They you'd have your own group.

Let’s be honest though. That would simply never work. You’d have to get a group of teen girls to make a pact to all be out of the loop. Not one of them can sneak a peek at social media!

Knowing what teens are like I’d say that experiment would last a week. Social media is addictive probably even more so for teens and fomo is real

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#344

Post by bazmattaz »

ericlewis wrote: post #66
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I have witnessed the same with my wife, we only have one girl.. the only thing I have imagined could work is keeping her busy and teaching her how to be attracted to decent communities that may not necessarily be who she goes to school with. edit: but I have literally no clue what I am going to do, I have like another 5 years or so.

What do you mean you have witnessed the same? Do you mean a decline in mental health?

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#345

Post by nvarsj »

ThalesX wrote: post #99

My little sister just started high school and in less than a semester is unrecognizable. There is no more her in her day to day life, everything is curated to perfection. There are no more hobbies, no more interestes, no more curiosities, there is just "me". I was so confident in her ability to withstand the impact of social media, due to her education, but ultimately I was just shocked at how fast the change was. I…

Relax. Sounds like a typical HS girl trying to be cool and fit in. When she reaches university she will mellow out substantially.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#346

Post by hax0ron3 »

tristor wrote: post #315

Unfortunately, you can't just ban social media for teen girls. That has negative mental health impacts as well, including on your own mental health as you try to enforce said ban. Social media is integral to the lifestyle of teenagers now, and not having it socially isolates you. It makes you a "weirdo" in the same way that being homeschooled or being in a religious cult would 30 years ago, in fact if you try to do s…

Why "unfortunately"? I am quite happy that teenagers' access to information is not being banned.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#347

Post by watwut »

andix wrote: post #289
watwut wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think social isolation of girls is reasonable knee jerk reaction to their issues.

I don’t know if that is even true. Maybe it’s the better call to give the kids a pack of cigarettes and send them to the kids who smoke secretly behind the gym, who just laugh about the instagram princesses. Or are those kids also a thing of the past?

You know, social aspect of smoking was fairly usual reason to start smoking. Because, people are social animals. And like it or not, there was period when smoking meant making networking connections non-smokers did not had access to. The proposed solution has nothing in it for girls. It does not make their lives better. It is not helping them in any way, except proposing new gender based restrictions on them.

Yes, you can go on buy your son new gaming console to play with friends while telling girls they are not allowed to use technology to talk to people. In a world where no social media means no way to organize in person encounters too. That is what the proposal amounts to.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#348

Post by cld8483 »

eastbound wrote: post #195
mrpopo wrote: post #87

I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion, but the dismissal of other factors is insufficient: > Why did a measure of loneliness at school go up around the world only after 2012, as the global economy got better and better? The economy didn't get better for everyone, in fact inequality rose starkly; this might be a correlating factor. > It’s not because of the 9/11 attacks, wars in the middle east, or school s…

> people in Western societies don’t kill themselves because of wars or collective threats The dozens of French white teens who joined the war in Syria in 2015. The thousands of English teens who freely enrolled against Franco, the dictator who took over Spain in 1936, while they absolutely didn’t have to, as it was not part of the conscription? And if, once there, they deserted, they were legible for the death penalt…

Just as some young men ride motorcycles at 200mph or free climb cliffs, others travel around the world to join wars that have nothing to do with their family or community. I would be very cautious about ascribing noble motives to reckless death-seaking behavior like this.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#349

Post by Zetice »

RangerScience wrote: post #319
Zetice wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boys are for sure not exempt from harm, but the harm seems to be as a result of equity: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo... > “Today in America, women expect more from men,” Levant said, “and unfortunately, so many men don’t have more to give.” Powerful stuff.

Quote in more context: > Women are tiring of their stereotypical role as full-time therapist for emotionally distant men. They want a partner who is emotionally open and empathetic, the opposite of the age-old masculine ideal. > “Today in America, women expect more from men,” Levant said, “and unfortunately, so many men don’t have more to give.” I think it’s pretty clear that the harm isn’t caused by equity, but that…

Yeah fair, I obviously don't think equity is a bad thing, I just think a lot of men were taught to rely on inequity and now that it's being reduced, those men aren't adapting.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#350

Post by aidenn0 »

Spivak wrote: post #146
aidenn0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took my phone away from my daughter for a few weeks because she violated her technology contract. She literally did not meet up with friends a single time outside of school during that time because it was all arranged on iMessage. I don't regret what I did, but it definitely was isolating. Granted this is not my most socially pro-active kid (the most socially pro-active kid used a friend's phone to sign up for soci…

Was that your intent? You effectively grounded her. Actually worse because if she was grounded she could still talk to her friends. Trying to equate all "technology" and confiscate it like it's an extra nonessential thing like video games or toys is a mistake a lot of parents seem to be making in an environment where most social activity happens online and where everything is planned. It's fine I guess if that's what…

It was not our intent; she is not our oldest and we were surprised how unmotivated she was to plan outings with friends without using the phone compared to others.

A phone is clearly a non-essential thing since she was able to function the first 13 years of her life without one. We have rules around proper phone use and there was a violation that was both significant, and a repeat offense, so the phone went away for an extended period of time.

P.S. I don't know what kind of grounding you had, but I sure as hell wasn't allowed to talk with my friends when I was grounded (by the time I got a phone in my room, it was removed whenever I was grounded).

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