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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#341

Post by yodsanklai »

matsemann wrote: post #238
zibzab wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden did not keep _everything_ open. We found a sweet spot between "business as usual" and "everybody stays at home". For example, big gatherings and sport events were not allowed. Schools were open only for younger kids.

Sweet spot being 3-5x as many deaths as Norway/Denmark/Finland?

Every country had to find some balance between freedom and health. I don't think Sweden is to blame more than anyone else. They had less death than most European countries.

Following you reasoning, how many more death did the US have compared to China? would you advocate to lock up people like China did?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#342

Post by akira2501 »

fsh wrote: post #308
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

None of this is true. The vaccination rate in Denmark is 77%, not 90% [1]. The number of hospital admissions and the death rate are lower than during the first and second waves [2, 3] despite a significantly larger infection rate [4]. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-fully-vaccin... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor... [3] https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavi…

On 1: The discrepancy in percentages is usually the difference between "Entire Population Vaccinated" and "Eligible Population Vaccinated." Which, until very recently, was only people 12 and older.

Given the exceptionally low incidence of death in the 12 and under group, it's debatable which figure should be given prominence.

On 2 and 3: The case rate is spiking significantly higher than it has ever before, and the death rate is on an upward trend. It is typically delayed behind the case rate, so we can't be certain that this will be as bad as it gets. It's still very possible for this wave to be more deadly than prior waves, even though the Case:Death rate is lower.

Instead of showing 2 & 3 separately, perhaps the combined chart [1] is a better visualization.

[1]: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#343

Post by shoto_io »

tchalla wrote: post #311
bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

> they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. There is no obligation (or force) to get a booster shot. It is available and recommended but not forced. Some groups like older age and immune-compromised people are highly recommended.

Yes, and if they had boostered the old in September/ October we would not be in this situation.

Now, everyone wants to get a booster and many old people I know need to wait until December or January to get a booster.

It’s the worst case that could have happened, because politicians didn’t do their job

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#344

Post by ZephyrBlu »

frockington1 wrote: post #224
dewert wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because you're all tied together for some reason? Really, this analogy is too much of a stretch to be meaningful.

The vaccine is so effective everyone should get it but stay away from the unvaccinated even if you're vaccinated because its not that effective.

This reminds me of the "no, not like that" meme.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#345

Post by wolverine876 »

hunterb123 wrote: post #123
wolverine876 wrote: post #119

I would be very happy if my government did the same. What a relief it would be! It's a public health measure, like public sanitation requirements, and driving a car that meets safety requirements. Unvaccinated people should be free to do whatever they want, short of risking infecting other people. Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins.

You might have a point if the vaccine fully prevented transmission or infection, but it doesn't.

> You might have a point if the vaccine fully prevented transmission or infection, but it doesn't.

No health or safety measure is perfect. By that standard, we wouldn't have any at all - we can't prevent all contamination of the food supply, so we would prevent none?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#346

Post by retromario »

zibzab wrote: post #188
krater23 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective Looks like you are really a optimist. I would say, 'It's clear now that the vaccines require one dose every 5-6 months to be effective against hard covid symptoms'. Additionally I would not say 'Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave', instead I would say 'Our governments failed hard during the complete pandemic'.

In the very beginning Germany was doing _extremely_ well, until the protesters showed up. Which is crazy, because Germany managed to do well by good organisation and mass testing, not by lockdowns.

Uh, Germany locked down pretty hard, several times. "Good" organisation and mass testing came later.

Source: my last two years with three kids at home

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#347

Post by nitrogen »

throwaway47292 wrote: post #335

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

send families 1 test per week so they can stop the spread quicker

This is a great idea, and I'm really curious why we don't have something like this, just mail a free mask and a free test to every address once a week, with a form to request more for larger households, or to request that they stop.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#348

Post by MadSudaca »

lambdaba wrote: post #306
throwaway47292 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the netherlands they just implemented measures to shut down non essential things at 5pm.. that lead to gyms/restaurants/swimming pools PACKED with people.. half the space, twice the density. in the very same day they implemented the measures the cases stopped growing.. the fact that a scientist can recommend "lets shut down gyms at 5pm" instead of "lets make gyms 24/7" makes me distrust the whole corona committee…

It was myopic cargo-culting since day one. I used to think that over the years I'd gotten smarter and subtler from my initial libertarian leanings, but this has opened up my eyes on how bad authorities can mess up, and more worryingly convince their people they're doing the right thing.

As libertarian leaning and someone who wants the state at a good distance, I believe that in many cases people are doing what they can, sadly, it fails to be enough. However, what’s the alternative?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#350

Post by Broken_Hippo »

guilhas wrote: post #321

The future looks grim with governments mandating health procedures on the population against their will

I'd rather be vaccinated than someone force Covid on me. To me, if you choose to be unvaccinated, you are showing how little you care about those around you and how little you care if they die.
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