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The Framework Laptop is now shipping

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Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#341

Post by michalf6 »

ddalex wrote: post #317
michalf6 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really prefer that a laptop was just a tiny bit thicker to fit a 100WH battery to compensate for that. My T480 gets 12-16 hours with normal use, I imagine it could easily hit 20 with current processors.

> a 100WH battery a hand grenade typically releases 250kJ, or about 70Wh you're asking for the equivalent of 1.5 grenades in your lap :)

Is it any worse than having 0.75 of a hand grenade on your lap? If it starts to smoke, you throw it away all the same. Besides, this capacity is standard in larger laptops, but not in smaller ones for some strange reason.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#342

Post by franga2000 »

ddalex wrote: post #317
michalf6 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really prefer that a laptop was just a tiny bit thicker to fit a 100WH battery to compensate for that. My T480 gets 12-16 hours with normal use, I imagine it could easily hit 20 with current processors.

> a 100WH battery a hand grenade typically releases 250kJ, or about 70Wh you're asking for the equivalent of 1.5 grenades in your lap :)

1.5 hand granades worth of LOW VOLTAGE ELECTRIC energy released into A CIRCUIT over A DAY or more and protected by multiple safety cut-off circuits with thermal and other sensors.

vs

A grenade releasing that as KINETIC energy into YOUR FACE over the span of LESS THAN A MILLISECOND and protected by a spring and a keychain ring.

Even if a lithium battery of that size experienced a critical failure right in your lap, you'd get away with a few scars and some serious but treatable burns. And I've only heard of one commercial product in the last 15 years that had serial critical battery failures...

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#343

Post by rvz »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #63
justicezyx wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this compare to Mac nook m1 and air?

If you want to repair or change anything on an M1 macbook you'd need to desolder components off the motherboard and then also own a spare M1 macbook for donor parts because you can't buy them separately.

> If you want to repair or change anything on an M1 macbook you'd need to desolder components off the motherboard

Exactly. Good luck to anyone upgrading the RAM or storage on that thing yourself. It is beyond risky to do this [0] (The article title is also misleading and ignores the extreme risk).

I don't think that [0] is remotely an option to the end user.

[0] https://9to5mac.com/2021/04/06/m1-mac-ssd-and-ram-upgrade/

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#344

Post by franga2000 »

Aeolun wrote: post #325
andresgottlieb wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that you can't have this with socketed RAM? Is there a physical limitation?

I imagine you may have some difficulty getting the pins to make contact if they’re too small.

Modern CPUs are an order of magnitude more complex and usually built on a smaller process, yet we have no trouble putting them on intermediary PCBs to spread out contacts and allow larger pins. I see no reason we couldn't make LGA sockets for DRAM chips in the same way.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#345

Post by tomxor »

ribit wrote: post #286
victor9000 wrote: post #254

This device is seriously the answer to all my laptop problems. I really like the form factor of the XPS 13, but now I'm stuck with the complete inability to upgrade RAM. In what universe is that normal? Then I accidentally nuked the USB-C ports on the left side when it got wet, and now I'm left with a single port for everything, including charging. What!? Why? I tore the entire thing apart and there's just no way to…

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

> In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM [.....] You simply can’t have this with socketed RAM.

You make it sound like a prerequisite. I'm pretty sure the reason LPDDR is Low Power is not due to (currently) being unavailable in socketed modules - that would seem to be a side-effect of the original target market (smart phones).

They are just some BGA packages, I see no reason they couldn't be soldered onto a board with a socket. If you scan through the features that make LPDDR LP, they have nothing to do with sockets, or anything affecting sockets: lower operating voltage, more power states, partial refreshing etc:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPDDR

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#346

Post by sz4kerto »

eptcyka wrote: post #312
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but we were talking about "user upgradeable" here. Even my local dealer won't upgrade engines and most car owners have no idea how to change their oil or a tyre, let alone perform engine transplants. One-off custom cars are a different thing same how there are YouTubers putting headphone jacks in their iPhones or upgrading the soldered VRAM of their Nvidia graphics cards.

Yes, but a lot of car owners do change their own parts, replacing various filters, adding bolt-on parts, changing out suspension, tyres and the like. Just because most people do not do this, doesn't mean that this is something that should be forbidden or designed against. Cars are built to have replaceable parts, why can't laptops be the same? There are issues with the M1 equipped macbooks burning through flash due t…

Cars don't need to be very small. Repairability depends on modularity, modularity requires compromises about size.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#347

Post by franga2000 »

nspattak wrote: post #301
ribit wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

Can you please point us to some technical report or something where they document the energy saving of moving from dimm slots to soldered ram/ssd ?

I don't think you'll find any. The way I understand it, the savings come from the new LP variant of DDR chips and nobody ever bothered to put them on DIMMs.

And even if the DIMM design (it's more than just a slot) doesn't make sense anymore, we could easily make a new "dumb" memory slot standard that would allow us to swap out the chips directly - like we have for CPUs.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#348

Post by aftergibson »

nrp wrote: post #23
aftergibson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the fact that Linux supporter isn’t listed makes me pause on making a purchase, especially when it’s from a new laptop maker. Hopefully on release we can get some confirmations about how well it runs.

We'll be posting up step by step installation and use guides for a few popular distros soon. We sent pre-release hardware out to developers and maintainers at a few distros and have been working with them on this. In the meantime, we also have a Linux sub-forum in our community where we expect folks will post their experiences with more obscure distros: https://community.frame.work/c/diy-edition/linux/91

Awesome, that’ll go a long way! Thanks.
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