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Re: undefined

#341

Post by AmericanChopper »

anigbrowl wrote: post #233
AmericanChopper wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump didn’t come up with or popularize the idea for this treatment. All he’s done is instruct the FDA to trial it, and stated exactly when a doctor can prescribe it. This is nothing more than any of the other doctors or health officials who think the treatment has potential have done. There is no possible way that any of his comments could be construed as advice to illegally acquire and self-medicate with a drug you…

Now now, there are multiple quotations on this thread showing that not to be true.

There is not a single one showing this not to be true, trump has:

* Instructed the FDA to perform a clinical trial

* Said the FDA has approved it for treatment of Coronavirus in “compassionate use” circumstances

* Said he thinks it will be effective

* Said he can’t be sure how it will turn out

All of his quotes on the topic can be put into one of those categories. The first two are simply statements of fact, the second two are statements of opinion (and presented as such), opinions that are shared by many doctors and medical officials (including the ones who initially suggested and popularized this idea).

Trump has made absolutely no statements at all saying:

* This will certainly work out

* It’s a good idea to self medicate

So, if there’s so many quotes proving you to be correct, I’m sure you could provide one. Instead of just making an unfounded and unsubstantiated claim that you’re correct.

Re: undefined

#342

Post by et2o »

Alex3917 wrote: post #339
et2o wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but just no. It is not a "medical" treatment unless it treats, prevents, or otherwise modifies some actual disease or state of health. I agree it is important to know what ridiculous, non-evidence-based dietary supplements people are taking. Regardless, you can't get out of your extremely irresponsible claims by arguing about semantics. Please stop giving anyone your incompetent and potentially harmful medical…

> you can't get out of your extremely irresponsible claims by arguing about semantics. Please stop giving anyone your incompetent and potentially harmful medical advice. How does saying "there is a plausible mechanism of" qualify as either irresponsible or medical advice? > you have to realize that in panic-inducing times like this people might actually take your advice and you could end up with blood on your hands.…

Are you or are you not intimating that people should take fucking garlic supplements for COVID?

You have claimed 1) there is plausible evidence for garlic (no) 2) garlic is a widely used medicine (no)

On the basis of those claims it is quite easy to see how you are suggesting people take garlic. Classic motte-and-bailey argument strategy.

Convenient that you also dropped discussion of “beet root”

Re: undefined

#343

Post by ModernMech »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #84
blhack wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. There has been studies and papers being written and released for MONTHS from all over the world. We’ve known about chloroquine since January. This INSISTENCE people keep having on politicizing this is infuriating and it’s going to get people killed. Stop doing this. Now is not the time for political point gathering.

Would have the man consumed the chloroquine if not for Trump broadcasting it? I'm willing to entertain both yes or no to this question, but I'm going to guess the gentlemen didn't know based off the scientific literature, but rather, the daily press briefings. And that differentiation does matter.

According to the wife of the deceased, they took it after hearing from the "President and his buddies" that it was safe and "pretty much a cure"

"We saw Trump on TV -- every channel -- & all of his buddies and that this was safe," she said. "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure." https://twitter.com/HeidiNBC/status/1242238268277755905

NBC: "Did you at any point hear that the FDA had not approved of it for coronavirus purposes or--?"

AZ Woman: "Yeah. But you know they kept saying that it was approved for other things...Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure." https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/124225471769609420...

Re: undefined

#344

Post by robocat »

dmix wrote: post #337
fabian2k wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paracetamol is probably the most dangerous over the counter medicine available, and might not be approved in this way if it were in the process now. This is really the exception, it's the poster child for dangerous, but still widely available medication.

Fortunately unlike Tylneol, Hydroxychloroquine requires a prescription in the US. In an effort to limit shortages multiple states are already making the criteria for prescription even more limited (anyone who prescribed it for COVID-19 was already making an off-label prescription): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-ph... Also of note, the couple took `chloroquine phosphate` not `hydroxychloroq…

> HCQ is used for people sensitive to Chloroquine-phospate: > Specifically it is used for chloroquine-sensitive malaria

HCQ is used for Malaria that is chloroquine sensitive, not people. Well that’s how I read it.

Looks like it was patented in 2005, which might also help explain why it became more common? But I”m totally guessing that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Aminoquinoline

Re: undefined

#345

Post by refurb »

amazingman wrote: post #338
refurb wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems completely reasonable to me. He says "have a real chance". He's not promising they work and stating that he and the FDA are doing everything they can to find treatments.

It seems completely reasonable to you for the president to tweet out unqualified medical advice during a pandemic?

It's not medical advice. It's "hey, these drugs look promising, so the FDA is fast tracking things".

How could anyone construe that as medical advice?

If the president said "hey, the FDA just approved a great new cancer drug", is that medical advice for cancer patients? Of course not.

Re: undefined

#346

Post by [deleted] »

pbreit wrote: post #263
mulmen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this is political or harmful. It's a valid criticism of the president based purely on his own actions and their obvious consequences with no mention of party.

The main reason chloroquine is getting criticism is because Trump mentioned. This is utterly insane.

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#347

Post by ComputerGuru »

maxerickson wrote: post #340
ComputerGuru wrote: post #255

I did not know this many people in HN were functionally illiterate. The article does NOT say they drank aquarium cleaner. Learn to read, people! A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. That’s like saying “My neighbor had a banana, a common ingredient in certain brands of monkey f…

There's a joke in there about you just now noticing.

Must be the “frog in boiling water” thing. It certainly wasn’t like this when you joined... right?

Re: undefined

#348

Post by LyndsySimon »

I’m a member of a forum that’s been talking about chloroquine phosphate as an alternative treatment for at least a couple of weeks now. The general consensus is that the side effects make it absolutely a “last resort” sort of thing.

If chloroquine phosphate were the only thing available and my elderly relatives were in respiratory distress as a result of COVID-19, I might consider recommending it. On the low range of the therapeutic dose, under medical supervision, because even in a healthy person you’re going to see rapid dehydration as a result of the vomiting and diarrhea that will absolutely follow taking it.

Another thing I’d point out - it seems very unlikely to me that someone sought out and obtained chloroquine phosphate in the short time since Trump started tweeting about it. It’s been sold out even online for at least a week. I know a couple of places to buy it, but have no desire to make that bet.

Re: undefined

#349

Post by makomk »

pkilgore wrote: post #95
austenallred wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, that is precisely what happened

I'm curious what your source is? I haven't found anything with more details than the linked article.

There's an NBC News interview. Apparently they literally took aquarium cleaner that they happened to have in the house from keeping koi fish. Didn't bother calculating dosage or anything.

Re: undefined

#350

Post by tree3 »

refurb wrote: post #262
anigbrowl wrote: post #25

A relevant data point. I don't think this is a good way to share public health information. @realdonaldtrump 7:13 AM - 21 Mar 2020 HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents)..... ....be put…

Seems completely reasonable to me. He says "have a real chance". He's not promising they work and stating that he and the FDA are doing everything they can to find treatments.

"be put in use IMMEDIATELY"
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