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Re: undefined

#91

Post by blhack »

jonny_eh wrote: post #80
blhack wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. There has been studies and papers being written and released for MONTHS from all over the world. We’ve known about chloroquine since January. This INSISTENCE people keep having on politicizing this is infuriating and it’s going to get people killed. Stop doing this. Now is not the time for political point gathering.

> it’s going to get people killed Like the man that the article is about?

Yes, exactly like the man in the article. People are trying to make this into some political, partisan fight, which causes people’s trust in experts to be eroded. There’s a whole story about this called the boy who cried wolf.

Re: undefined

#92

Post by pkilgore »

makomk wrote: post #29
nostromo wrote: post #10

Chloroquine is safe when administered by a doctor. It's also easy to overdose if you don't know what you're doing. I'd hate to see people spread information about how dangerous Chloroquine is when it may be very useful treatment during this pandemic.

From the page linked in the article: "A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks.". Did he literally just consume fish tank cleaner? That seems like a really easy way to mess up dosing.

I agree, it's not clear if the couple consumed the unformulated active pharmaceutical ingredient.

But the fish tank part would be true either way (I don't know!), and was likely included to scare people from doing stupid shit like this.

It's the same reason you can survey people about whether we should ban the corrosive chemical dihydrogen monoxide and you'll get a ton of yes responses. In the absence of sophisticated knowledge I think framing matters!

Re: undefined

#93

Post by fabian2k »

robocat wrote: post #65
fabian2k wrote: post #22

I wasn't able to find a reliable source on short notice, but the ones I found indicate a therapeutic index of around 4-8 for chloroquine. The therapeutic index is the ratio between the dose that is effective and the lethal dose. So in this case if you take 4-8 times the dose that actually works you're in the range where it could kill you. I'd be really interested in more robust sources on this. But from the bits I've…

The therapeutic index for paracetamol (acetaminophen) is ~10 (or less for people with damaged liver etc) Be careful with all medicines or drugs - taking more can easily lead to worse outcomes. Edit: “In a review article on paracetamol toxicity among children, the therapeutic index was 1.7” [Heubi JE, Bien JP. Acetaminophen use in children: more is not better. J Pediatr 1997]

Paracetamol is probably the most dangerous over the counter medicine available, and might not be approved in this way if it were in the process now. This is really the exception, it's the poster child for dangerous, but still widely available medication.

Re: undefined

#94

Post by mulmen »

blhack wrote: post #70
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

This is ridiculous. There has been studies and papers being written and released for MONTHS from all over the world. We’ve known about chloroquine since January. This INSISTENCE people keep having on politicizing this is infuriating and it’s going to get people killed. Stop doing this. Now is not the time for political point gathering.

I don't see how this is political or harmful. It's a valid criticism of the president based purely on his own actions and their obvious consequences with no mention of party.

Re: undefined

#95

Post by pkilgore »

austenallred wrote: post #72
makomk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the page linked in the article: "A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks.". Did he literally just consume fish tank cleaner? That seems like a really easy way to mess up dosing.

yes, that is precisely what happened

I'm curious what your source is? I haven't found anything with more details than the linked article.

Re: undefined

#96

Post by mlindner »

anigbrowl wrote: post #56
AmericanChopper wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did Trump recommend that people self-medicate chloroquine? Even the CNN article trying to pin this on him only quoted him as saying that he was working with the FDA to make it available via prescription for this treatment.

You're surely aware that Trump regularly declares himself more knowledgeable than the experts and derides his critics as 'fake news' or 'never trumpers' etc. etc. It's not a stretch to think that more credulous folk might take his tweets literally in defiance of common sense, given the media ecosystem dedicated to promoting his 24-7.

That's completely unrelated to the person you responded to. You can't blame someone for simply mentioning something and not even advocating for it. Good grief.

Re: undefined

#97

Post by NicoJuicy »

blhack wrote: post #70
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

This is ridiculous. There has been studies and papers being written and released for MONTHS from all over the world. We’ve known about chloroquine since January. This INSISTENCE people keep having on politicizing this is infuriating and it’s going to get people killed. Stop doing this. Now is not the time for political point gathering.

Doesn't mean he is wrong though, the transcript is mentioned below.

Re: undefined

#99

Post by teddyvangogh »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #40
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

We all made fun of South Africa's Thabo Mbeki when he recommended beetroot, garlic and other herbs to combat HIV. Turns out, we have no reason. It did happen here, on primetime TV.

Faulty generalization = the fallacy of examining just one or very few examples or studying a single case, and generalizing that to be representative of the whole class of objects or phenomena.

Re: undefined

#100

Post by [deleted] »

Alex3917 wrote: post #64
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

He didn’t recommend using the drug. And even if he straight up told people to eat massive doses meant for fish, that still wouldn’t absolve anyone from the consequences of their actions.

[deleted]
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