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Re: undefined

#331

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

et2o wrote: post #327
Alex3917 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Garlic and beet root are not used medically for any disease at all Garlic is literally one of the most widely used medical treatments in the entire world. It's used medically by 0.8% of all US adults, according to the NIH. https://nccih.nih.gov/research/statistics/NHIS/2012/natural-... It's use was advocated for my Hippocrates. You know, the "father of medicine" guy. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/131/3/951S/4…

I can’t tell if this is a troll or not. It is listed below echinacea and cranberry pills (two supplements with substantial evidence for NON-efficacy) on the National Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine’s ranking of SUPPLEMENTS taken in the US. If it was real effective medicine, it wouldn’t be considered an “alternative” medicine (a polite phrase for horseshit). Do you realize how ridiculous that is a…

Reference does not say it's of any use. However it is organic so it must be good.

Re: undefined

#332

Post by Alex3917 »

et2o wrote: post #327
Alex3917 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Garlic and beet root are not used medically for any disease at all Garlic is literally one of the most widely used medical treatments in the entire world. It's used medically by 0.8% of all US adults, according to the NIH. https://nccih.nih.gov/research/statistics/NHIS/2012/natural-... It's use was advocated for my Hippocrates. You know, the "father of medicine" guy. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/131/3/951S/4…

I can’t tell if this is a troll or not. It is listed below echinacea and cranberry pills (two supplements with substantial evidence for NON-efficacy) on the National Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine’s ranking of SUPPLEMENTS taken in the US. If it was real effective medicine, it wouldn’t be considered an “alternative” medicine (a polite phrase for horseshit). Do you realize how ridiculous that is a…

If people use something medically then they use it medically, end of story. You don't get to say that something isn't used medically just because it might not be effective or prescribed by doctors or whatever.

Knowing what people are using medically is critically important, regardless of whether you think they should be using it or not.

Re: undefined

#333

Post by blunte »

sandov wrote: post #198
blunte wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to argue about the title "most powerful nation on this planet". It's a nice tagline, but the metrics for which it applies are narrowing rapidly. But still, let this be a lesson to those who would follow bad leaders to their own demise; or rather, let it be a lesson to their offspring who watch them follow the bad leaders. I suspect humanity follows cycles of enlightenment, complacency, and self-destructi…

> But still, let this be a lesson to those who would follow bad leaders to their own demise; or rather, let it be a lesson to their offspring who watch them follow the bad leaders. a.k.a 90% of the population. At such point, you're just complaining about human stupidity, instead of any specific group. And our children will be just as stupid as us, but their leader will say dumb things about other issues instead of ch…

I'm not entirely sure that's true. Or maybe it's a case of "we've traded the old bugs for a set of new bugs".

Anecdotally I can identify two of the four living generations of my family having observed and corrected _obvious_ failures of their elder generation. What's perhaps harder to recognize is the new bad traits that get introduced.

To be fair, though, each generation has increasingly different circumstances than the previous one. The human circumstance seems to be varying more with each generation as of the industrial age.

Ideally we would collect and review all the previous lessons learned. But we tend to get fascinated by new shiny things (or Netflix series), so we aren't evolving optimally...

Re: undefined

#334

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #329
Alex3917 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> neither do garlic and beetroot have anything to do with nitric oxide. "Potent activation of nitric oxide synthase by garlic: a basis for its therapeutic applications." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7555034 ...

Validated at least by reference, which he has given. Upvoted. We need more than this such as references to it or disclaimers for it, niether of which I can find. That is not to detract from the existence of the paper which he referenced. Whether nitric oxide has much to do with health is anothre question. I believe one of the reasons viagra works is due to nitric oxide, so perhaps it's we should be viagring instead.

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#335

Post by _jal »

swebs wrote: post #298
_jal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Needlessly?" When the authority figure with the biggest microphone in the country starts promoting off-label drug use in response to a national emergency? Just stop.

>starts promoting off-label drug use He never did that. Someone above posted a link to his actual tweet. That is a ridiculous conclusion to draw. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/12413672399007785...

Why focus on a single tweet, pretending as if that is the only relevant communication?

He called it "very very promising", claimed it would become immediately available all over (it won't), and has been talking it up for multiple days at multiple events on national television as a treatment for a rapidly spreading disease. His own experts are contracting him in an attempt to tamp down what a moron in a hurry can correctly guess is going to happen.

If you wish to hang your word on the fact that he never explicitly called for self-medication, well, it is your reputation.

Re: undefined

#336

Post by et2o »

Alex3917 wrote: post #332
et2o wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t tell if this is a troll or not. It is listed below echinacea and cranberry pills (two supplements with substantial evidence for NON-efficacy) on the National Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine’s ranking of SUPPLEMENTS taken in the US. If it was real effective medicine, it wouldn’t be considered an “alternative” medicine (a polite phrase for horseshit). Do you realize how ridiculous that is a…

If people use something medically then they use it medically, end of story. You don't get to say that something isn't used medically just because it might not be effective or prescribed by doctors or whatever. Knowing what people are using medically is critically important, regardless of whether you think they should be using it or not.

Sorry but just no.

It is not a "medical" treatment unless it treats, prevents, or otherwise modifies some actual disease or state of health.

I agree it is important to know what ridiculous, non-evidence-based dietary supplements people are taking.

Regardless, you can't get out of your extremely irresponsible claims by arguing about semantics.

Please stop giving anyone your incompetent and potentially harmful medical advice. Luckily most people with COVID won't try to treat it with garlic supplements alone because they aren't stupid, but you have to realize that in panic-inducing times like this people might actually take your advice and you could end up with blood on your hands.

Re: undefined

#337

Post by dmix »

fabian2k wrote: post #93
robocat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The therapeutic index for paracetamol (acetaminophen) is ~10 (or less for people with damaged liver etc) Be careful with all medicines or drugs - taking more can easily lead to worse outcomes. Edit: “In a review article on paracetamol toxicity among children, the therapeutic index was 1.7” [Heubi JE, Bien JP. Acetaminophen use in children: more is not better. J Pediatr 1997]

Paracetamol is probably the most dangerous over the counter medicine available, and might not be approved in this way if it were in the process now. This is really the exception, it's the poster child for dangerous, but still widely available medication.

Fortunately unlike Tylneol, Hydroxychloroquine requires a prescription in the US.

In an effort to limit shortages multiple states are already making the criteria for prescription even more limited (anyone who prescribed it for COVID-19 was already making an off-label prescription):

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-ph...

Also of note, the couple took `chloroquine phosphate` not `hydroxychloroquine` which was what the government just fast-tracked and is apparently a 3x more effective treatment than the former. According to Wikipedia, HCQ is used for people sensitive to Chloroquine-phospate:

> Specifically it is used for chloroquine-sensitive malaria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine

We don't yet know if the person in the article was prescribed it or even had any symptoms/prior medical history.

Re: undefined

#338

Post by amazingman »

refurb wrote: post #262
anigbrowl wrote: post #25

A relevant data point. I don't think this is a good way to share public health information. @realdonaldtrump 7:13 AM - 21 Mar 2020 HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents)..... ....be put…

Seems completely reasonable to me. He says "have a real chance". He's not promising they work and stating that he and the FDA are doing everything they can to find treatments.

It seems completely reasonable to you for the president to tweet out unqualified medical advice during a pandemic?

Re: undefined

#339

Post by Alex3917 »

et2o wrote: post #336
Alex3917 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people use something medically then they use it medically, end of story. You don't get to say that something isn't used medically just because it might not be effective or prescribed by doctors or whatever. Knowing what people are using medically is critically important, regardless of whether you think they should be using it or not.

Sorry but just no. It is not a "medical" treatment unless it treats, prevents, or otherwise modifies some actual disease or state of health. I agree it is important to know what ridiculous, non-evidence-based dietary supplements people are taking. Regardless, you can't get out of your extremely irresponsible claims by arguing about semantics. Please stop giving anyone your incompetent and potentially harmful medical…

> you can't get out of your extremely irresponsible claims by arguing about semantics. Please stop giving anyone your incompetent and potentially harmful medical advice.

How does saying "there is a plausible mechanism of" qualify as either irresponsible or medical advice?

> you have to realize that in panic-inducing times like this people might actually take your advice and you could end up with blood on your hands.

What advice? I literally haven't offered any advice.

Re: undefined

#340

Post by maxerickson »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #255

I did not know this many people in HN were functionally illiterate. The article does NOT say they drank aquarium cleaner. Learn to read, people! A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. That’s like saying “My neighbor had a banana, a common ingredient in certain brands of monkey f…

There's a joke in there about you just now noticing.
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